Hash Church Season 12 Episode 27

his week on Hash Church, we're diving into the fascinating world of mushrooms with Santi and Ruben from MycoBag and Full Canopy in Colorado. Join us as we explore mushroom genetics, cultivation, innovation, and the exciting crossover between mycology and cannabis. Whether you're a seasoned grower or just mushroom-curious, this is an episode you won't want to miss!
Sunday at 9 AM PST / 12 PM EST — Live on Bubbleman's World. 🍄🔥


Sponsored by Puffco, The Press Club and Bubblebags

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

There it is, guys. There it is. Welcome, everybody. Welcome on a Sunday morning, July 5th, 9 a.m. Past Church season 12, episode 27. First off, and most importantly, happy birthday, America. Holy shit. 250 years. That's incredible. Incredible. I wish I could have been there. I had friends sending me messages with fireworks going off and getting together and having a nice time and eating food. So I hope you all had a really, really nice time on the 4th of July. And I hope that you didn't blow any of these off because I did uh see a couple of people post. I posted, in fact, today is the last day some people will have all the hands on their fingers. Isn't that a crazy statement? When you're having fun, you're having fun. And sometimes having fun means you're blowing off your fingers. Who knew? Anyway, I'd love to start off the day as always by shouting off, uh, shouting out our incredible sponsors. I believe I saw the press club in the room already. Shout out to you and yours, homie. All right. If you want to elevate your solvent list game at Hash Church with the Press Club's premium lineup of rosin extraction essentials, well, they are proudly supporting our community through top-tier tools that make clean, potent concentrates a breeze. You know, from their legendary rosin bags with proprietary pink stitch, zero blowout guarantee, that's awesome. For unbeatable durability and yield to award-winning wash bags, premium parchment paper pre-press molds, and the innovative press club rosin press for precise heat and pressure control. You know, whether you're crafting at home or scaling up their isoswab stations and collection plates, keep your setup spotless and efficient. And it's all crafted with 100% food grade dye-free nylon for contaminant-free results that uh preserve those precious volatile organic compounds. You can join the press club in championing hash church by heading over to www.thepressclub.co today. Gear up for your next epic press. Definitely good guys worth supporting. And of course, you can ignite your dabbing journey with Puffco. These guys have revolutionized the art of dabbing, bringing concentrates to the world with unmatched style and innovation. And I really don't think that that is an understatement. They have truly revolutionized the art of dabbing. From the procket-sized Puffco pivot, delivering portable 3D chamber flavor to the Peak Pro, really the ultimate smart rig with Bluetooth precision and massive clouds, and the modular proxy dash core, redefining versatility with its sleek customizable design. Puffco does indeed set the gold standard for hash enthusiasts everywhere. The cutting edge tech has made dabbing approachable, flavorful, and fun, inspiring a global community of concentrate connoisseurs. We are absolutely beyond stoked to have Puffco as a proud sponsor of HashChurch, fueling our passion for sharing the love of hash with the world. You can shop the Pivot, the Peak Pro, the Proxy, and more at www.puffco.com and join the dabbing revolution. Yeah, I mean, why not? And then, of course, bubble bags. Well, you guys know about those. I don't have to tell you too much about that. Let's be honest. We've been around for 30 years. If you don't know about bubble bags at this point in time, I don't know what to tell you. But uh, you can support us as well by heading over to bubblebag.com and you know all the stuff that we've got going on. I'm excited for today's show. Got some homies coming on uh from Colorado and possibly Barcelona. I never know where Ruben is. Of course, Ruben uh is my friend who runs the Valenvera's equipment, who does the testing unit that I have. And so he is um hopefully coming in today, as well as Santi. I just said Santi's name and he appeared. Do with that as you will. Um, and Santi and Spoon are gonna be coming in as well from full canopy and micro micro bag, which I have my micro bag hat on today. How could I not?

SPEAKER_03 4:22

How could I not?

SPEAKER_01 4:24

There he is. What's up, brother? Good to see you, man.

SPEAKER_02 4:28

Good to see you too.

SPEAKER_01 4:29

I love the hat.

SPEAKER_02 4:30

Oh, that's a nice hat too. Look at you. I figured someone else would be wearing yours. I didn't expect it to be you, dude.

SPEAKER_01 4:37

That's what's up. You like that? This was such a nice gift you gave me. Literally, the first time I met you in Barcelona at the uh well, no, not Barcelona, in the hospital at at uh at the Spanibus is where I met you at the booth there. Yes, sir. Yeah, that's right. So you're coming in from live and direct from Colorado?

SPEAKER_02 4:57

Live and direct from Colorado. Spoon is over here. He's gonna try to join shortly as well. And I'm shooting the text to Ruben. Excellent.

SPEAKER_01 5:06

Yeah, you know those guys. They're like Ruben's probably like, what time is it? Where?

SPEAKER_02 5:09

I'm in Japan. He was on a sailboat last time I saw. Was he? Yeah, on his sailboat in Barcelona, which is odd because he's not home a lot.

SPEAKER_01 5:19

Yeah, no, for real. He hit me up the other day. He's like, you know, you have a boat and a and a house in Barcelona. I'm like, I didn't know that I had a boat and a house in Barcelona, actually.

SPEAKER_05 5:29

Good to know though, better late than never.

SPEAKER_01 5:31

Yeah, exactly, exactly. Well, I'm excited for our conversation today, man. I'm excited to get into the mushrooms and excited to talk to uh, you know, kind of all three of you. I don't really know the full history of full canopy and Michael Bag and how you guys all linked up. So I'm actually pretty, pretty looking forward to that. I kind of got some questions set up, real basics. How did you start? Why was, you know, how why do you think mushroom cultivation has exploded? But we'll kind of get into all these different sort of conversations here in the future. I guess, you know, you being here alone, it would be great to hear your journey with the mushroom and how it kind of, you know, the mushroom journey is always a unique one. You don't just accidentally get into mushrooms. Like there's usually like a whole coincidence that occurs before you find yourself in in the space of the mushroom. So I'd love to hear uh, I'd love to hear yours, brother.

SPEAKER_02 6:23

Just yeah, no, well, thanks for asking. I'd love to hear yours as well. Uh it it not only with mushrooms, but cannabis, hash, etc. Uh you know, I've heard some of it and you've talked about it in the past, but maybe there's some new listeners that that don't fully know. Um, but yeah, I think I mean there's a little bit of exactly what you said. There's also a little bit of that uh mysterious understanding that sometimes it's not you going to the mushrooms, but the mushrooms calling you in a way. So I think it's a little bit of both, right? Typical, like when you go foraging, there's uh they want to be found is is kind of the saying, right? So if you're looking, they want to be found. Um, but yeah, that was it. It's just an experience when I was younger with mushrooms that opened up my mind and helped me realize that what I was told was not the truth, and that sparked immediate uh curiosity.

SPEAKER_01 7:23

Awesome. Hey, welcome Spoon. I saw you sneaking in there. Can you hear us?

SPEAKER_03 7:30

Can Spoon hear us? Let's see, I'm gonna scream. Hello, Spoon. Oh, he can't hear us.

SPEAKER_01 7:38

So we might have to go and do his audio a little bit. There's always some audio to be done in Zoom. If you go to the bottom left, that little microphone symbol, and then at the bottom it'll say audio settings. It might be able to walk you through that. That is if you can even hear us, in which case, if you can't, I am confident that he oh, he's in the same house as you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's over here in it.

SPEAKER_02 8:00

So, yeah, I was the weird thing for me is it didn't allow me to join through the browser, the Zoom. So it forced me to download the Zoom app and then all the computer settings, right? Like, do you want this application to have access to your microphone and camera and this, that okay, okay. It might be well.

SPEAKER_01 8:18

We'll let uh Spoon figure out the technical difficulties. At least he's in the room with you, and worst case scenario, he can hear you. Um, I I've got a couple of little conks that I just uh have next to my my table here that I figured I'd bring. These were just little conks that uh that I found in the backyard uh of my house here. So I've got uh this red belted polypore.

SPEAKER_02 8:43

I love that, man. Yeah, that's that's beautiful. I mean, I I remember when you were here, you told us that you go foraging right in your backyard, but there's my belt.

SPEAKER_01 8:53

No, check this one out, dude. I've shown this one quite a bit, but look at this thing, bro. That's massive, dude. This was also in my backyard, and it was so beautiful and massive. It was on a log that had fallen across a river and it was connected like this, so it was growing upside down. It had been growing like this off the log, right? You know, kind of like this. Yeah, but now it was like this, and I couldn't bring myself. I've been looking for a Rishi for probably 10 years, and I found one a hundred feet from my house on a fallen tree over a creek, and I refused to pick it. So instead, what I did is I visited it every day. And one day I went to visit it and it wasn't there, and I almost shipped my pants and I looked in the river, the water, and I kind of followed it down about 20 feet, and it had bumped up onto a mossy bed where it was preserved perfectly. No rot, no nothing, just a perfect, you know, immortality mushroom, as the Chinese call it, the Rishi, a very unique uh mushroom because it involves two separate types of extraction. It has water-soluble alkaloids and it has alcohol-soluble alkaloids. So, in order to get the majority of everything that's in here, you have to do two different extraction processes and then put those together. Welcome, Colin. What's that? Beautifully said. Yeah, I got Santi here today with me uh from Full Canopy and Michael Bag. He's in Colorado. I met him through Ruben from the um Valenveras unit, the testing units. So Ruben, remember when I met Ruben, if you remember the story, he was standing in in Spanibus, you know, right in the middle of the entrance of the pyramid, holding like a kilo of Stropheria cubensis mushrooms. So my meeting with my first sort of link up with with Ruben was much more mushroom related than it was cannabis related. Even though soon after we were going to be using his unit and we were we were testing his unit, and he was just like, just the happiest person I think I've ever met in my life. Like I didn't, I don't know. Like when I met him, he was like, I've been looking for you. And I kind of was like, huh? What do you mean you were looking for me, dude? He's like, Oh, bubble man, you must come see this and that. And what a fucking great dude. How did you meet Ruben, Sante? There was a lot for him to show, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_02 11:26

You must come see this and that. There's endless. Uh I met Ruben a life in cannabis, right? Really going out to Spanibus. I've been going out to Spanibus since 2016. And uh, somebody I was working with is uh a lawyer in the cannabis space. He helps all the clubs and anybody working in Spain in the cannabis space because it is all fully legal. And uh it was Ruben's lawyer too, so it was through a mutual friend we connected. I saw his first version of the NIR, which was you know as big as an old school computer. Yeah, if not bigger. So it but he, like you said, he was just the happiest person in Spannabus, the most excited about something that very few people understood, right? To me, the first time he explained it, it seemed like science fiction, and uh here we are now, you know, developing models for psilocybin, psilocyon and and minors. But yeah, a mutual friend, uh specifically going to Spanabase, and then the relationship just grew naturally from there, and it was in 2023 that we officially became partners and started the Mycobag project.

SPEAKER_09 12:38

So, not soon, like I must have met you right then.

SPEAKER_02 12:42

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was our first uh event as Mycobag. So, and we were actually we didn't even have our own booth, right? Because in no, you were in the back ass corner of some fucking other booth, right? In span of it is like I don't know how many years wait to like get a booth, probably not the same anymore.

SPEAKER_01 12:59

But do you know those are the best booths? The booths that aren't for all the tire kickers, the booths you need to find, the booths you need to adventure to get to, not the big right in the middle with the spinning wheel and the obnoxious lineup and the bag full of swag. Fuck that booth. Do you know what I mean? But the booth, when I found your booth, I was like, Oh, hey, what do we got going on here? I have a couple of pictures of our meeting in that booth, and I think I also met oh, what was his name? Kwan. Exactly crazy. I am so going to Japan this winter and ride sleds with Kwan, it's not even funny, dude.

SPEAKER_02 13:41

There's nobody better to do it with.

SPEAKER_01 13:43

Like, dude, I go to his booth, Colin, and he's got this fucking dude in the booth who's like local to Japan, lives in Niseko, fucking has a sled company. In I was just like, what are you talking about right now?

SPEAKER_07 13:56

Water chasing out there. This guy, it's it's like a friend of mine was telling me like culturally, the they don't really go off trail.

SPEAKER_08 14:02

So, like when we come out, what are you guys doing?

SPEAKER_07 14:05

But email we've influenced over the years, but like there's a ton of just amazing snow to be had that's just empty.

SPEAKER_01 14:13

Yeah, so yeah. Well, I apparently Kwan has sleds, which is very rare for Japan. People aren't like rocking sleds in Japan, they're earning their turns and walking up the the hill. Can we hear you now, Spoon? I can hear you. Can you hear me? I can hear you. Oh, perfect. Thank you. Good seeing you. Yeah, it's good to see you too, as well, man. Really good to see you as well. This is Colin, one of our regulars, Mr. Vessel Life Science, just ripping a ripping a dab. Thought I'd introduce you while he had something in his mouth because that's always classic. Good meeting, Colin.

SPEAKER_07 14:47

Oh, hitting some of Kaya's work here.

SPEAKER_01 14:49

I think yes, someone just said shout out, Kaya. Organic root 6963 was like, Shout out, Kaya. Yeah, baby.

SPEAKER_07 14:57

Uh I was like, Andy Berman gave me this. Shout out to Ghost, Josh D, everybody over there, Kana. Big love.

SPEAKER_01 15:05

Nice, dude.

SPEAKER_02 15:06

Colin, I gotta join you, bro. You're one ahead of me. Shout out to Nick, Bordel Provision. Oh, hell yeah. Stuart, miners melt. Oh shit.

SPEAKER_01 15:15

Well, how about shout out? Shout out, if you know, you know. Oh, yes, candy fumes, baby. No, this is a Canadian version of this company, it's totally different. But this is fire. There is no doubt about this. This guy gave me five jars. Here's another one right here. If Bubble Man says this is a lot, this is uh one of uh um from Archive. No, it's like ridiculously fire. It's as good as anything anywhere. It's like the top five masters of rosin. It's like portal provisions, it's like miners mounts, it's like terps over yield. This is as good as it gets. So, shout out to him. He also gave me a couple of joints, really beautiful joints. They were two gram joints with 0.5 of a gram of rosin in them with a big glass, fancy tip, rolled to perfection. And I didn't think I was gonna enjoy it. I cannot believe how good that fucking joint. This is also all organic. Everything is organic, from if you know, you know. So, really, really nice product. But shout out all those other guys you mentioned as well. Certainly not to take anything away from from Kaya and Ghost and Josh. And remember when we went and met them all in Vegas there, Colin? Weren't you with me when we went? No, dude, I wasn't. I was so sad.

SPEAKER_08 16:33

I was like, does the first year I didn't go to that's right.

SPEAKER_01 16:37

Yeah, we went to Kaya's birthday, and he was like, just bring your crew. And I showed up with a crew that didn't fit at the table, so they made a whole other table for the people that I brought.

SPEAKER_07 16:48

That's who they are, bro. They're great people, and you know, it's a good good group over there. But I, you know, it's worth saying, like the makers that actually make their hash, you know, power more power to you guys because there's a lot of repackers out there, specifically in New York, that are not hash makers at all. They're opportunistic, buying work from guys like us and repacking it. Yeah, so you know, just know your hash maker.

SPEAKER_02 17:13

Those that are a real shout out, Colin. Shout out to the people that are doing the work.

SPEAKER_03 17:17

That's it.

SPEAKER_07 17:18

100%.

SPEAKER_03 17:19

Shout out to those who are doing the work.

SPEAKER_01 17:21

You know, it's not a bad thing to do. I think I need to turn on the universal heater. I am so excited to get into a big old mushroom conversation today. I can't even tell you. And the timing is incredible because for those of you that follow my social media, I just finished an e um uh an interview with um Max from uh Dialed In Gummies, but also from digging in podcasts. I think he's also like a big part of Sun Theory, maybe the CEO or something, which is a big company in Colorado that has uh a schwack of stores that we're actually in with the Bubble Man brand. And so he just posted a clip from that um video, from that hour and a half to two hour long podcast that I did with him a couple months ago in Colorado. And the clip that he posted was talking about doing five dried grams in a dark room, which was, you know, back in the day. This was Terrence McKenna's uh suggestion to all of us. He was like, listen, this is what you got to do. I was a huge Terrence McKenna head, okay? This is like, I was very, very lucky to be like 18 years old and have a friend of mine who was a mentor. He was 27, Martin Morovchik. He started Manitoba Harvest, uh the big food company in Manitoba. And he was a partner and a mentor, and I looked up to him a great deal. Anyway, he had a mentor, and his mentor was named Harry. And Harry was like 60-something years old, and he grew weed, he grew this Williams Wonder, and he would like cut it up all nice and uh, you know, put it in a paper bag to dry it and then give it to Martin with these little buds on this big stalk of Williams Wonder, and we'd just be like, oh my God, this is so nice. And, you know, then he started gifting us these cassette tapes. And he gave Martin a cassette tape from 1987 from the Estalam Institute, and it was Terrence McKenna, and it was called Psilocybin in the Sands of Time. And that lecture absolutely is my all-time favorite Terence McKenna lecture. I would urge any of you who have not heard it, and I bet you most of you haven't that are watching, go listen to that fucking. It's gonna be rough. It's not gonna be the best sound. If you're an audiophile, it's gonna irk you in a big way because it's very like tinny and high, and there's no bass to his voice. And Terrence already has a really high voice, and he's gonna be, you know, but just get into it, eat a little mushroom, get into it. It is one of the most spectacular. I think actually in that talk is one of my first famous favorite, famous quotes of Terence McKenna, which is these substances do not bathe the ego in a cloud of certitude. And I always thought, wow, like talk about the most accurate fucking description of a mushroom experience, a real mushroom experience. And what I mean by a real mushroom experience is a heroic mushroom experience, one that really blows the door out and you and you and you go to another dimension. And so, Harry, wherever you are, bro, shout out to you. Harry had a master's degree, he considered it a joke. He also invented a game called Scruples, which is how he made millions of dollars. He invented the game Scruples, which if you haven't, it's a pretty good fucking game. Go buy yourself a copy and know that the guy who's making the money from it is a total head if he's still around, because that was like 35 years ago and he'd be a hundred years old today. So I hope you are alive, Harry. I hope you're still inspiring. The Terrence McKenna tapes that he gave us, he must have given us 30 or 40 over the next couple of years. And I listened to every single one of those lectures. I read every single one of Terrence's books, I read every single one of Terrence's um interviews and articles in magazines. I ordered Terrence's spore from Cat in Hawaii called the Syzygy back in 1989, which was we didn't even really know because we were still listening and reading. It wasn't until around 91 or 92 we were like, holy shit, this is the syzygy. This is the one that they went and collected in the Amazon. Um, and we always felt, you know, we I grew up in an incubator of alcoholism, Winnipeg, Manitoba, and the mushroom just seemed to cut through alcoholism in the most beautiful way. We would just, you know, we would give it to people who were like, you need to do this tonight instead of that. And we really saw it like have an effect on people. It had a massive effect on me. It affected everything about me. I'm I'm certain that I would not be the person that I am today, even in the cannabis industry, without the experience that I had with the mushrooms. So So I would love to hear both yours and Spoon's sort of origin story of how the mushroom found you or how you found the mushroom. So there.

SPEAKER_09 22:17

Yeah. So um I think like when it when it comes to mushrooms, uh about in my mid-20s, I had a few more uh recreational experiences. You know, like uh just you know, with friends, hanging out, walking around outside and everything. But I wasn't really thinking of mushrooms at that time as a like therapeutic any anything to do with therapy. So it was it was more just like recreational, having a good time, you know, going out and stuff. And then uh after moving to Colorado and getting into the cannabis industry and then meeting Santi, uh like the last year that I was in the cannabis industry, uh I started like reading more about mushrooms. Um I've got like major depressive uh disorder and a few other things going on. So I'd like tried therapy and other stuff like that. And you know, like talk therapy worked pretty well as far as being able to just like talk through things and making things like real. But the medications that I was getting just weren't very useful for me. Um you know, other people will take uh pharmaceuticals and they'll be perfectly fine, but for me, they kind of like made my moons go crazy. Is there SSRIs? Yeah, yeah, like LexaPro, 12 U trim, 5 ants, other stuff like that. Um so it was like a combo of like ADHD medication and uh SSRIs. So I think like that combo for me just wasn't very good. My moods were like all up and down. It made me like less stable. And then after reading about them for about a year and meeting Santi, we started working closely together. Sonti kind of like taught me the ropes as far as growing and you know, introducing me. I had already read uh Paul Stamet's book, The Mushroom Cultivator. So it was cool being able to kind of like learn about the mushrooms, grow them, and then I think after we've been working together for about six months, I did two uh seven gram doses and I did them about a month apart. The first seven gram dose I did was albino penis and urever. And it's very similar to what you were talking about before, kind of like very dark room and everything. Whenever I'm on like a higher dose of three and a half grams or more, I normally just like get under my bed covers and then I just close my eyes and just kind of let the experience take me where it goes. So on that seven gram, that first seven gram experience, it was not you know, I was just kind of like going with the flow, and when I got really deep into it, I kind of, you know, like felt it like present and I kind of felt like I was in this like spider web of the universe and you know, just floating around kind of seeing different uh like memories and things kind of like outside of myself. And in the experience, I was able to kind of be like, okay, like these are things I did wrong, you know, other things, just being able to really like come to like more healthy conclusions about myself and kind of like things that have happened in the past. And then at the very end of that experience, I just have this insane burst of like gratitude for being alive and just like happiness, which is something that like you know, my entire life I've been like very depressed with suicidal ideation and you know, just thought negative thought loops that aren't constructive and kind of like warp your perspective on what's happened to you.

SPEAKER_03 26:15

On everything.

SPEAKER_09 26:17

Yeah. So coming out of that and feeling that intense gratitude at the end and being able to see outside of myself, uh, like look at myself from outside my own perspective was extremely like nourishing and healthy. And that like burst of gratitude at the end, I think was like extremely instrumental because I've never had, you know, I've never been happy to be alive.

SPEAKER_01 26:40

You know, it was always I never I never got that from you, brother. I'll tell you. When I when I met you, I was like, oh, this is just a kind of quiet, nerdy, analytical, fucking awesome mushroom guy. So your journey is uh is is you've gone deep down the rabbit hole, in my opinion. I'm a really good uh judge of character. I I feel people's energies often. I come from exactly what you're talking about, my wife's family. I have a son who has a little bit of it going on. And I love to get to the bottom of it. I love that you opened up today's show uh to be vulnerable enough to share your truth with us, which is like, fuck, dude, people are having bad thoughts. I personally believe we have two major opposing types of intelligence in this world. We have demonic intelligence and we have angelic intelligence. You can call them whatever you want. They're not necessarily good or bad outside of the human experience, but the mushroom really allows us to process those concepts and feelings. And for me, I'll be honest, I don't even know if I can feel depression. I don't even know. Like, I just I've never related to depression. I have never had, like, I remember being real sad when my dad died, you know, suddenly when him and his wife were perished on a motorcycle that I bought him for his 50th birthday. That shit rocked me like nothing has rocked me in my life. But I wouldn't say it was depression. Yet I've been around depression my entire life. I'm constantly around people who sort of suffer from this possession of these demonic fucking loops, these cyclical loops that just they don't let you out. They're concreted in, and you just go around and you go around and you go around and you try to, you know, often talk your way out of it, which is very difficult. I don't see a lot of people talking their ways out of it. I see that, you know, people get so exhausted with it that even something like an SSRI can seem like a good idea, even though a lot of these people who who suffer from this, they, you know, they're very sensitive beings. They have a sensitivity to them where they're, you know, like my father-in-law, for instance, he was extremely sensitive. He ended up passing away in a psych ward. He literally used his own mind against himself to perish. You know, he had this narrative where he was too far gone. And it would be like me saying it, oh, spoon, I'm too far gone. And you'd be looking at me going, I don't think you are, dude. Like maybe you're having a hard time, but I don't think you're too far gone. And with the power of his mind, he literally disintegrated into nothing. And so if only the people who are suffering with depression right now, as well as those who aren't, could realize the power of your mind is is what you're playing with. And it's the mushroom that goes into the mind, rewires neuroplasticity, reconnects connections that maybe have been broken, and makes connections that have never been made. And I don't pretend to understand it. I'm not a neurologist, I'm not a doctor, but I know for a fact that the times that I took psychedelic mushrooms 100% built my character. Like 100%. It's cannabis did it to a degree. But I mean, I'm telling you, we did a lot of these five gram mushroom trips, like a lot of them. So tell us about your second one.

SPEAKER_09 30:07

Yeah, you know, get kind of going off of what you said there, it's very interesting because, you know, like your your perception is your reality, right? And you know, you're like a very positive person, you're very outgoing and everything. And like maybe for you not being able to understand depression, like your uh or like go through it, your uh like maybe your mental is just more uh healthy, or you just have a very resilient mindset. Whereas like, you know, when I was growing up, it was kind of like, you know, all of my earliest memories are like, you know, very negative, you know. So I think that that from a very young age going up, you know, into my you know, like late 20s was, you know, my perception was very negative as far as my experiences, just like day-to-day, you know, and when you have those negative thought loops, you're just stuck in that trap. And so like talk therapy helps with that as far as being able to come to grips with your perspective, but as far as being able to pull yourself out of that, I I found it very, very difficult, at least with the therapists that I was dealing with. Um, they would always go take medication rather than uh like better habits or well they're probably they're trying to dull the experience while what you did was reframe your perception. Yeah, and I I don't know, I don't know, like uh, you know, like I don't know that the doctors themselves are trying to like, you know, I'm I'm sure that they're trying to help in the but the way that the SSRIs and ADHD medication works, it definitely dulls your experiences, makes you more numb, which I think if you have depression or anything like that, uh is not you know what you want to do. You want to reframe your perspective in a way that you're looking at things in a more positive light. Like Santi is really, really good at this. Everything is framed through a positive lens, and that's infectious, right? And hanging around with people like that is infectious. And when you get into like, you know, your own mindset and you kind of go towards groups of people that maybe have other negative thoughts like that, you know, it can be like this thing where you you're just doubling down on these negative thoughts, digging the hole deeper rather than trying to pull yourself out of it. But that that first experience was really, really great. I think looking at myself through another lens and then the gratitude was the main thing, being so happy to be alive. And that really like started to move me in a more positive direction. And then uh a month later I took another seven grams of tidal wave. And uh yeah, shout out to MagicMico, he's the one that read that one. But uh that that was another extremely positive experience where you know, that this time there was no spider web or anything. I think that I on this one did experience more ego death where I was just like in, you know, under the bed covers, eyes closed, and just in the black. Just going through like, you know, doorways to different memories and being able to process a lot of the same things in that first experience, but also I think like not cement but more solidify a bit more of like a positive outlook. But I I think it's one of those things where it's uh you know, it's it's a work in progress, right? Like doing those things put me on the right path. And you know, that was five years ago, and I've done a few macro doses since then. But it is a thing where the psychedelics help you with the realization, but then you need to put into place habits and other things in your day-to-day so that you don't, or at least I do, so that you don't fall back into those negative thought loops and you know, bad habits.

SPEAKER_01 34:08

Yeah. Well, this is this is killer conversation, dude. Like absolutely killer. This is this is the power of the mushroom when you really break it down that it's uh, you know, and it's funny that it's scary, right? I there was always this thing about the fear of the experience, right? Because that fear is your ego. Your ego is terrified to die. Your ego's tough, it's strong, it doesn't want to be embarrassed or emasculated. It's you know, I'm not gonna hide under my covers. It's like, I bet you will. It's like just try five, seven grams, too. I'm not sure where you got the extra two grams in there, but holy shit, I went to the school of Terence McKenna. I thought five was plenty. Um, for any of those people who have not done a heroic mushroom dose like this, it is truly terrifying. It is, it is hard to not experience ego death on a mushroom trip like this. And I love where the world has come. You know, Terrence started us off on these macro doses, these massive five plus gram doses. And we've gotten the world seems to very much be, and it does seem to be the same thing with happened with cannabis, which is like, oh, what about the CBD? Oh, I love the CBDs. And then we got the micro dose, right? This, the, the micro mushroom dose, which honestly is also so powerful in its own right to be able to just pick up, you know, just above threshold where you don't necessarily have to have like a heroic trip, but maybe you're not feeling the best that day. And you just have that micro dose of mushrooms that just bumps you up. I personally, one of the reasons I'm loving coming to Colorado, and trust me, it's not like we're we're short of mushrooms here in British Columbia. I can pick them and not just psychedelic mushrooms, which of course we're gonna get into today, uh, from the Reishi to the lion's mane to the cordyceps, to all of these different mushrooms and the sort of, you know, the powers that they hold and the powers that they that they can gift. Um, I want to talk about all these different mushrooms, but the ones that definitely had the most profound effect on me have been the psychedelic ones. And when I first went to Colorado, I was so inspired. I mean, everyone was giving me mushrooms. Like, here's some gummies, here's some this. In fact, Santi, you gave me some bags of mushrooms, uh gummies. And I remember sitting at my buddy's uh place, the reserve, which is fucking awesome. That that that mansion in the building in in downtown Colorado. And that night we're like, oh, we're just gonna like here, have a macro dose. And Kyle thinks he's eating like one milligram, and so he eats three or four of the extract gummies. So he ends up on like 15 milligrams or something of these extract gummies. Dude was tripping. I ended up having to sit with him for hours because he was tripping so hard. And uh, you know, for from from months afterwards, he's like, oh yeah, Mark dosed me. I'm like, well, no, I I didn't realize there was X. I just gave him like, I was like, here, dude, these are for the house. And you had given me like eight packs or something. And of course, the one pack he opens and gobble, he reads one pack, oh, one milligram or whatever. He's like, opens a totally different pack and eats those. I'm like, oh my goodness. So great, great work, guys. I have uh I have enjoyed your work. I got my little sticker right here from Full Canopy. And your first trip, you said was penis envy. So that the syzygy is involved in the penis envy, I believe. It's a parent stock, is it not?

SPEAKER_02 37:40

I was gonna mention that myself. We were reading the story earlier or earlier this week. Just uh shout out to Basidium Equilibrium. He does a great job at documenting to the best of all of our abilities uh the genetic lineage. But yeah, I believe it does the uh the the father of PE is what uh Terrence found in in the Amazon. Spoon, correct me if I'm wrong.

SPEAKER_09 38:04

Yeah, I believe uh that the original penis and v was uh from spores or uh spores that Terence McKenna found in the Amazon. Which is pretty wild to think that they found those spores so long ago, and now there's how many different penis and v variants and penis and v crosses with all different you know kinds of effects and everything. It's wild.

SPEAKER_01 38:31

Yeah, it really is. I gotta shout out the guys from holy smokes uh in Nelson, BC, who got me into mushroom foraging very much along the same time. It was probably the early 90s. We go out uh here to BC and we go and find semilinciatas, which were known as the Liberty Caps, very strong and wonderful mushrooms. Talk about an amazing experience. Those mushrooms will have you vibrating, literally like a tuning fork. You will vibrate. There's no getting away from it. Uh, some of my other favorite mushrooms I picked with those guys, they turned me on to cyanessins, which I still pick to this day. I love wavy caps and cyanessins. Um, they also turn me on to stunsies, uh, whatever. Stunsies were so so they're not really a very strong mushroom, but still kind of fun to find. Uh, and then one of my favorites from back in the day, balecysten, which of course contains balecystin and nor bailcystin, which have been found to be of the more visual psychedelics. You eat enough balecystins and you definitely um you definitely can increase little things in your in your line of sight, especially uh in a in a very dark or semi-dark room. Uh, you really get some real visuals off those mushrooms. And those have kind of been some of my favorite ones to pick here in British Columbia, as well as azurescens. Uh, they're a little bit more rare, also very strong. I have a hard time. Like often when I pick cyanescens, I end up with some azurescens in there and vice versa. They just uh they're so close. Sometimes when the cyanescence, before they before they wave out, they have the very similar look to the azurescens. And so I'm not like, oh, is this that? Is that for me? It's as simple as does it have the purple spore? Does it have the bluing? Is it growing on medium that I know it grows on? If I see cyanescence and they're growing under a rhododendron or a butterfly bush, I can almost guarantee those are going to be cyanessins based on that color of spore and that bluing of the mushrooms. Plus, there's also an intuitiveness that comes with foraging mushrooms. Uh, keep in mind it is your life that you're playing with when it comes to mushrooms because they can kill you. Um, galerinas in particular, the deadly gallerina, which grows all around where uh cyanescence and azorescence tend to grow. It's a similar-looking mushrooms. Personally, I could not mix them up, but I guarantee you back in the day when I first started, I absolutely could have mixed them up. And eating, you know, one or two of those mushrooms will produce full renal failure and kill you. So it's very, very important when in doubt to throw them out. Now, the gallerina mushroom does not have that veil over top of the uh uh over top of the mushroom, and it also has a very rusty orange spore. So when in doubt, cut the top of that stem off, drop it on a nice white piece of paper, uh, and you'll see you cannot mix up. I mean, unless you're colorblind, in which case you shouldn't be doing this work. A normal person cannot mix up these two colors. Rusty brown and purple are a dark purple, are very, very different. And uh, like I said, if you're if you're if you're in doubt, well, for God's sakes, either A, make sure when you go out picking mushrooms, you have a mycologist or someone who's practicing in mycology who's with you. And B, if you're just going out for fun and you're picking out lobster mushrooms and oyster mushrooms and whatnot, uh, just be very careful uh when picking psychedelic ones because these damn gallerinas, uh, they can really throw you for a loop. And uh kidney failure and and liver and and full renal breakdown failure is is not something you want uh when really what you're looking for is a psychedelic experience or a medicinal mushroom experience. Well, I appreciate you telling that story, uh Spoon. I'm uh there's a lot of people watching who would very much love to kind of figure out the process. Now, here's my worry. The value, we know the value of SSRIs. It's it's billions and billions because we know that a ton of people are stopping. This is very normal for people to have rumination, for people to have um, you know, that voice in the head that won't shut the fuck up, that's louder than all the other voices. I whether you want to call it possession, whatever you want to call it, it's super common. There's literally hundreds of millions of people suffering under this voice as we speak. My worry, which has always been my worry since the beginning of all this, I watched, I kind of watched what happened with cannabis, and a lot of different people got into cannabis and they had their own visions. And the thing about cannabis that I love, the beauty of cannabis is that whether I want to judge someone and how they're doing it or not, the bottom line is more exposure. More exposure. If people want to smoke fucking distillate with fruit turps and floor sweepings, who am I to judge? It's availability. And so too with the mushroom. It's availability. My worry are these healers who are going to step in and they're gonna be like, well, spoon, you know, you don't know, but we know. We're gonna help you. Let us why so think of the spoons out there that aren't you, that don't work at an awesome fucking mushroom factory in Colorado with an awesome, you know, positive guy like Santi and Ruben. Jesus Christ, how the fuck could you be depressed around those two guys?

SPEAKER_06 43:55

True.

SPEAKER_01 43:55

It's like impossible. And so what I worry about the people. Who are stepping into this who are gonna step into it with the wrong people who are gonna be claiming, you know, like the the rainbow gatherings or whatever, where you're like, oh, this old hippie guy is wise and cool, and it's like actually he's a pedophile, and you should keep all your daughters away from him. And I'm not saying that about all the rainbow gathering people, I'm just saying they're parasites that move into these industries. I wonder if you guys have been thinking about this, the parasites moving into this industry to try and control the healing aspect of the mushroom. We saw it with cannabis, I'm already seeing it with mushrooms. Do you guys just it's not even on your radar and you're just moving forward? Or what are you guys' thoughts about that?

SPEAKER_02 44:40

Yeah, I would say go ahead, Swan.

SPEAKER_09 44:45

Yeah, I think that in any, you know, new enterprise or any, you know, anything that comes up into the mainstream, there are going to be people looking to get in and make a quick buck that aren't in for the long haul, and they just move from thing to thing to thing, and you know, they're just looking to make quick money. Um or they give you know very bad, dangerous information that can be extremely negative, or in a worst case scenario, you know, it's fat and you know, there's some weird sexual stuff going on, you know, which is very, very common. So I think it's the kind of thing where when you're taking mushrooms, definitely like if you're doing it for the first time and you have some friends that can do it with you, and you can like make sure that the environment is positive and your sentence setting is good and you're with familiar people, I think that's like one of the best ways to start because you're in a familiar probably in a familiar setting with familiar people that are gonna make you more comfortable rather than going to maybe like a sterile environment at a clinic and doing it with a clinician or going out into like the Amazon with a tribe or random people from around the world that you know you just you don't you just don't know these people. So things might be different, you may be subjected to things that maybe for them are normal, but for you are not. So I think like having a very familiar setting to start is the best way to set yourself up for success, especially if you're looking, you know, to go a lot deeper. But you can always start with microdoses, right? Like uh 0.1, 0.15 grams is a really, really good way to start out and just kind of see, like, you know, get a little bit of the vibe, but not very much, or it'll be subperceptual. So you know, like, oh, I can take this amount and not have a crazy experience. Because, like you said earlier, the psychedelic experience can be like it can be unsettling and scaring and anxiety inducing. And if you're fighting it throughout that experience, you know, it can it can be very well.

SPEAKER_01 46:56

I think I think of it as like um I'm trying to like kick out or or or you know, get rid of. I'm trying to process whatever my awkward or demonic or whatever negative energy I have, I'm trying to get it out. And so while you're getting it out on a trip, it's fucking weird. You know what I mean? And if a bunch of your buddies are there tripping to enjoy the the Floyd show and you're going through this process, it's kind of like, dude, what the fuck? I'll tell you the most go ahead, please.

SPEAKER_02 47:32

I was gonna say that that is your bad trip, right? Like where most people have been trying to suppress something that maybe they went through or just something on their mind, and they're not trying to work on it. And there's a lot of substances that help you suppress those kind of thoughts, and psychedelics are not one of those, right? Specifically, like specifically mushrooms, I would say are not one of those. So to be in a comfortable set and setting to then take psychedelics with your friend, it's very important to know also like the the set and setting is the setting you're in, but also the mindset that you're in, right? And it doesn't mean if you're not, if you don't have a positive mindset, don't take mushrooms. It's just if there's something that might surface in a moment where you don't want it to surface, like at a concert or a party or somewhere where you know everybody around you is just cracking up and crying, laughing, but then you're going through this traumatic experience, working through something that you didn't want to work through, right? You wanted to avoid, then you catch yourself in a bad trip, if you will. But it's that's a very heavy experience at home with somebody that might be, you know, helping you, taking care of you, or maybe by yourself if you set it up correctly, but you're prepared for this. It's then you can work through this situation. And people still say, Wow, that was a very difficult experience, but I feel so much better after, right? Whereas if you were in the concert, it was probably just a very difficult experience, period.

SPEAKER_01 49:02

Set and setting, it's uh we've been saying it since the late 80s, and I've heard it probably since before that, but it I it's so important, and I don't think people really hear it. And it's you know, someone said it to me the other day. They said, you know, the other thing is is, you know, have your friends or have a couple of people around. But it's like, in my opinion, this was a friend of mine saying, like, if you have a 250-pound man taking a heroic dose, you should not have a 110-pound woman being the only person that's there walking that person through that dose. And not that these are violent drugs in any way, but at least when you're setting up for set and setting, you're not setting up for worst-case scenarios and talking about that, right? We're setting up for best case scenarios. But at the same time, you know, if you need to be able to take control over someone while they're on these substances, it's not something that you want to have to do. But, you know, like for instance, I've seen people smoke salvia at Breeder Steve's place in Lugano and then jump up and start like just running around. Well, we're in a warehouse with glass leaning up against all the walls. Like, this is not a safe place. Luckily, this guy was pretty small, but imagine if he was 250 pounds and it was just like, you know what I mean? Like now, this was salvia, not cannabis. And salvia is a is a is a disassociative. The beautiful thing about not cannabis, mushrooms. Mushrooms are not a disassociative. So no matter how many of them you take, the mushroom will always remind you, oh no, I'm here. Like you took me. We're together. These other substances are called disassociatives. And you can forget you took the drug. How fucking terrifying is that? Holy shit.

SPEAKER_07 50:40

It's mushrooms. The one, the one thing I, you know, as you guys were talking, I just I was just thinking, you know, uh, for me, uh, as I came up in the in the world and and learned about psilocybin, I I took it um very at very first, my very first experiences were really about taking it and playing music and really understanding um an instrument and a role within a group of people and deeply going into yourself and and finding that role and understanding the things that you're using your hands to do and the time frames you're in, and locking into these weird time frames or or not, maybe it's just four, four, um, with eight bars or twelve bars, whatever you're trying to do. But it's um it was a very sacred space. And then as I got older, I started to experience um psilocybin and other psychedelic experiences in a more therapeutic kind of way. But looking back, music was very is very therapeutic and having these experiences layered together, have this extra balloon together that that allows this therapy to kind of um subconsciously kind of get burned into you. Um so I I recommend, you know, as you guys were saying, like the safe space. That was very much like the music's the studio for me, like this place where I could explore and go turn knobs and make sounds and and and kind of express myself through not even like I would get in a room with other like my two friends and we wouldn't even speak. We would have this like idea of like this this extraterrestrial kind of uh experience that we you know kind of talk to each other through sound, right? We we like move different knobs and do different things, and it became this extra language that we developed outside of psychedelics, actually. And as we played music together, not taking these drugs, it it formed this kind of connection um in ways that I just can't quite put into words. But you know, it's all due to the space, is what I'm trying to get get at. Is and if I it didn't have that safe space, it would have been like you know, like this different experience because we were taking like really big doses, you know, like we're talking like you know, hero doses, you know, not because back then we didn't understand what micro do I did at least I didn't. I came up in a world of um lots of lot kids and a lot of a lot of Grateful Dead um you know culture, and um it just wasn't a thing we really did was like just eat, you know, we sure some of the elders around me would be like I eat a cap or two, but even that back then I didn't really think as a microdose. You know, I I really didn't it didn't compute to me. Um so I I just find it interesting, you know, all these years later that we you know we understand this in such a way that it's it's really um it's amazing that we can we can make mic milligram doses that actually target certain ranges for ourselves. Um imagine what would have happened back then if we understood that. You know, um you know I think that's that's a really it's amazing. So my question for you guys is that as you have been doing this, um you know what's what's been like the number we haven't even talked about what they're doing yet, dude.

SPEAKER_01 53:55

This is the this is the craziest thing. We're like a fucking hour into the show. I haven't even told them to explain the company yet at all. Dude, that's so funny.

SPEAKER_07 54:04

All right, but like I I think it's amazing, but you know, I guess to finish my thought here is like I I also have taken other psychedelics, right? AMT, DMT. Uh AMT was really exciting at the time. It was it was very challenging um for those that have done it. Um, but it's uh you know, and then ayahuasca, right? And I think Marcus said it's you know, being in a group, it's just really awkward for me to take these types of substances in a in like this group setting. Um, when I did ayahuasca, I ended up walking into the jungle with a bong in my hand, and they like told me not to smoke weed, and they're like, you can't do this. I was like, I was like, that guy's freaking out over there. She's playing the guitar. I just need to get out of here. Like, this is this is too much for me. So I went off and I was like, my herb is my sacred space for me. I love herb. You can't tell me not to do this. And I went off and did bong rips. And um, you know, I find it interesting that um there are others that feel more safe in a in a in a group setting, right? And um for some reason I just didn't feel that way. Um I'm with you, Colin. It was very different. I'm I'm the same way.

SPEAKER_01 55:17

I I'm not into the big group uh uh at all. I'll tell you, the guy that I started growing mushrooms with, Jason Noctugal. Shout out to you if you're watching Microwave. We called Jason Microwave because he was on acid with my friend Dave Esau. And for whatever reason, Dave Esau thought it would be a good idea to climb the pole so he could see further down the road just because they were waiting. I could be getting the story wrong. It's been like 40 years or 35 years. Anyway, for whatever reason, Dave climbs the pole. He gets up there just to look, but the electricity, the the wire arcs into his leg. And now he's getting electrocuted with like some ungodly amount of electricity and uh enough to kill like uh 10 people in the electric chair. And then microwave, my buddy Jason, he's looking up at it, going, holy shit. So he starts to climb up. Well, the the handles are metal, right? And it's the the center is metal. So he is now getting electrocuted the minute he touches the thing. And he climbs all the way up and puts my buddy Dave on his shoulder and then comes back down and basically saves his life. Comes to school like the next day, his face is all burnt, his arms, he's burnt the skin off of his arms from climbing up the thing. Jason also suffered from depression and negative loop thoughts. He was always just like, just, you know, and one day we did a heroic dose together, just the two of us, at my father's cabin, which was like hours into the bush, uh, pitch black kind of thing. Um and he we ate these mushrooms, and I'll never forget these like I could see these demons possessing him. They were like dark, shadowy figures that were like coming out of his back up behind him. And I just was like, I was sitting across the room from him, and I'll never forget being like, dude, like stop doing that. And he's like, I'm trying, like, I could just feel the fucking vulnerability in his voice. And this motherfucker was straight possessed by some crazy dark fucking energy. We ended up leaving, going out, sitting by the fire, and having a pretty like super intense, I mean, to say it to words, it sounds like nothing. We were basically like, you know, staring through our eyelids at the fire next to one another. And we just had this really, really intense, almost hard to put into words experience. Uh, and I know that it wasn't the end for Jason. I know Jason continued to have, you know, those those problems, but from the perspective of someone that doesn't have them, it was probably one of the scariest things I've ever been around uh in in my life to to to be that close to that kind of energy that wasn't him, but was was in him for sure. Scary shit.

SPEAKER_09 58:02

Yeah, it's interesting when we talk about, you know, like uh, you know, bad experience, quote unquote. I would I would say more like challenging experiences.

SPEAKER_03 58:10

Yes.

SPEAKER_09 58:12

Like, you know, you talked about how you know you had that experience and then maybe you sat down to like talk afterwards. And it was like the most challenging experience I ever had. I was, you know, tripping by myself on three and a half grams, and I just had this physical anguish in my head over all of these things that were starting to crop up. And you know, it was very challenging for the first couple of hours. But as I was coming down and processing it, you know, like I was with a couple of other uh, or sorry, I was I was alone, but I like called a couple a couple other people as I was coming down and I was able to have a very, like, very productive conversations with them about things that had cropped up that I wouldn't have been able to have prior to that experience. So it's like, I think that you know, it's a challenging experience in that maybe you are going through some physical pain or mental anguish or, you know, exercising your demons or whatever, but that allows you then to take the next step. And, you know, if you're doing it with a group of people, talk to them. If you're doing it by yourself, process it. Maybe go then talk to a therapist or talk to your friends as it's come up, you know, your close friends that you can have those deep conversations with. And then I think the healing becomes more solidified because you're not just internalizing it, you're processing it as it's coming up, which in my mind is a much better way to work through your trauma or whatever it is you're doing.

SPEAKER_01 59:44

Well, it's it's the logos and your trauma is your inability to use words to manifest reality instantaneously. And all of us have had that effect. And so we use our words. You can you can acknowledge that your words have created your reality. I'm sure that you can acknowledge that, which means that you create reality with your with the frequency and the and the intention of your of the sounds that come out of your vocal cords. And so if you can imagine, that's the logos. What were the DMT elves that were jumping in and out of Terrence's chest telling him to do? They were saying, don't be amazed, just do what we are doing. And what were they doing? They were creating three-dimensional objects with their voices instantaneously. So I suspect our inability to do that is what we call our trauma. And when we consume the mushroom, it unlocks the logos, which is language. Because I heard when you just said that, Spoon, you what you said the word talk like about 11 times. You could talk to your friends, you could talk to your, you could process and talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk. Yeah, it's the logos. That's what it's unlocking. Alcohol locks that shit up. You can't even fucking say a set mixing up all your fucking words, flumbering and floundering. The, the, the mushroom and possibly, you know, the tryptopine, the tryptamine molecule, um, it unlocks language like no other. And language seems to unlock trauma.

SPEAKER_09 1:01:21

Yeah, being able to talk through everything, you know, especially after these experiences, I feel it just solidifies it so well. Especially, you know, you want to be talking to your friends that are very open. And you know, if you do it in a group setting, everybody's very open. And it's like very cathartic, you know, it's emotional. You know, you're connecting with somebody on you know a much different level than you would without the psychedelics.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:49

And I think it has a lot to do with the frequency of your voice when you're talking after that experience, and you come out, you have a very unique frequency. And those words, they need to have a frequency. The frequency is the intention. And if it vibrates too low, in my opinion, the intention doesn't set, it doesn't anchor, it just slips away over and over and over and over again in a fucking cyclical nightmare.

SPEAKER_09 1:02:16

And a lot of go ahead on psychedelics. They, you know, you you have these realizations, and it's very easy for them to slip away as you're having the experience. So I always like to have like a notepad or something so I can write them down in the moment.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:29

Wow. I tried to write some stuff down years ago before we knew anything about this. Before all we knew was Terrence. That's what we knew. We were like, Terrence, I'm gonna follow this guy. He seems to know what he's talking about. I like him, I like what he's writing, I like the stories. I, you know, I even got used to listening to his voice. So it's incredible how far we've come. And I shouldn't be afraid uh of the double-edged sword that will cut innocent people who just want to have these experiences and will end up having them with the wrong people who claim they are healers. I shouldn't weigh that against the incredibleness of um access, simply access. The more access people have to these substances and compounds, the more knowledge they can learn about it. I'll tell you, when you take them and pick them, like I mean, you guys have the experience all the time because you do the bags, which I think we should lead into that here right away. I would love to talk about, talk about all the sort of spiritual aspects and the medicinal aspects that you guys have have used, the mushrooms. That led you now, how both of you to come together with Ruben and start these companies, if you guys can kind of chime in on that. Whichever company was first, if both were happening simultaneously, whatever the story is, I'd love to hear it.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:47

Uh, the full canopy came first. So before full canopy, Spoon and I uh had different mushroom projects and they were in different places in the US. But then we came back to Colorado with our mushroom projects before Prop 122. Post Prop 122 is the first time that we were really public, right? Because we come historically from being extremely private people, uh, both just in our in our way of being, but also with our work for obvious reasons, right? It was illegal everywhere. Whereas then in Colorado it became legal. So then we formed a company which was full canopy, and we chose to focus mainly on developing genetics, isolating, uh, finding new, creating new, and um stabilizing mainly these genetics, right? So in that process, we also developed a cultivation modality and substrate recipes, uh, where we found ourselves growing inside of sealed bags. And so, really, most of the work that was done uh both intentionally and somewhat by consequence of doing other things was to um isolate and stabilize genetics that could produce well in high CO2 environments because the mushrooms breathe oxygen, exhale CO2. So normally you would need to grow them in like a tub that you can open or put multiple filters into so that they could breathe and then fruit well, so on and so forth. So, in the process of creating full canopy and focusing on, you know, how do we make this growing process the most efficient, both from a genetic and uh process recipe standpoint, we started to grow inside of sealed bags. And then our friends over in Europe, Ruben and other friends, um, they loved what we were doing here. They followed it from the beginning, they came and saw it in person. And really, it was them that they were like, we got to bring this to Europe because in Europe we have the topper wares that are the grow kids, right? Unlike in the US. In the US, there wasn't really a big precedence of selling mushroom grow kids. In Europe, these kids have been sold for 18, 20 years. So What it was is a product to us here in the US that was extremely innovative. To them, it was just an improvement of something that already existed, right? Which we're bringing it back to access. That's always our biggest goal.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:13

So did you guys discover these bags, or had this already been kind of a discovery in the mushroom grow world? The bags? The bags were used. They were used in gourmet.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:24

And you just transferred it over to psychedelics? In a way, yeah. We blended different.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:29

And were you PF teching with syringes, or were you doing this old school agar mycelium inoculation method?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:38

We were working with agar, with uh liquid culture, right? Like the with the mycelium and different uh in different means, and then bringing it into grain, different grains, so on and so forth, that then we would bring into substrate. And so first we were just bringing it into substrate in tubs, but then we started to use bags and we would cut them open inside of a Martha, like a high humidity tent, so that they could fruit, as you normally would expect cubes to have the fruit, right? In high uh humidity, but also higher oxygen. And then little by little we would instead of cut the whole bag, just cut the filter patch so they were getting less oxygen, but still getting some. And then we just didn't really have time the time to cut all the filter patches, and so we left some sealed, and we realized some did well, some didn't, some didn't do anything, right? Like some were getting in a way choked out, some mutations were happening too because of the stress. So just in that organic process of a lot of people say, right, like fucking around to find out. I think the main thing that drove all the the RD was just pure curiosity, right? Like we're never we're never uh settled or or calm. We're always just anxious uh and curious. We want to find out more. So yeah, but by accident, in a way, and and intention, we stopped cutting the bags altogether, and then we turned off the humidifier in the tent because now the humidity is inside of the bag. Uh, and then we also work the genetics, right? Just isolated as maybe a bag would produce a single fruit. And so from there you can take the spores and a clone of that fruit because you have something that is more resistant to high CO2, and um, yeah, developing this uh these genetics and cultivation modality, the guys in Europe, uh Ruben, our friends, we're like, we got to bring this here. And so we brought it over there and we started doing it out of a friend's garage, and it became popular enough to be able to move into a facility, and now, you know, again, main thing is just give people access to a new way of growing your own mushrooms, which we can guarantee that you'll have success in cultivating them, right? You won't get contamination, you won't have to fail and possibly not try again. If it doesn't work, we can replace it because it happened so not often.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:08

It's a bummer when it does happen. I remember being so bummed out, but I also remember when it started, when they started growing, like my wife literally claimed that our room was glowing from just spores in the air. And she's not airy fairy, like she was like, No, I'm telling you, the room is glowing for sure. Um, I felt the same glow when I came to your guys' facility. I remember going into that house and feeling like this feels like my best friend's house growing up. Like, I'm just I just feel welcome. You guys had all like I still have my stickers that I got from you guys, all my all my full canopy stickers. Like, hell yeah, dude. It was such a good vibe. And just the whole little tour and the the different strains. We haven't said the word strain yet. And for mushrooms, it's actually accurate, and for cannabis, it isn't. So we should just say strains at least a hundred more times during what strains are you guys growing over there? What's your favorite strain anyway?

SPEAKER_02 1:10:08

We were lucky to have you, Bo man. I mean, I think what Colin mentioned earlier, too, and and just be uh, you know, obviously Spoon's story. That's amazing that that he shared. I'm grateful to you for giving us the platform where we can talk about this, right? Where maybe a couple years ago it wouldn't have happened because, you know, it's a higher risk, et cetera, et cetera. But now we can come together and share these experiences, which unfortunately is the only way for us to continue to learn, right? Is through that citizen sci-end and shared experiences.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:41

Yeah, but what an incredible, like when you just think of the world as a frequency and everyone's frequency is affecting everything, like you're you're you're putting like real medicinal frequency into the out into the world. You know, like these, I get that people like, oh yeah, I love, you know, pop and one, pop and one here and there, but there are also like intensely personal and intimate experiences to be had on these compounds that, you know, that term know thyself, dude. I don't think you could know thyself any better than through a heroic mushroom dose. And it's wild to me that so many people are A, terrified to do it, which really speaks volumes on how much they've enforced uh their egos. And just that it's still, I can't wait for BC to have the laws that you have in Colorado for mushrooms. Now I can pick them and I can have them for the most part. They're not like arresting people for mushrooms, but I wouldn't be confident in starting like a bag company and and selling, you know, cultures to people. I I just feel like eventually there'll probably be uh I mean, Canada is not as cool as it once was. And if it's not legal on the books, then it means it's it's not allowed. So you guys are lucky to live where you are uh and be able to do the work that you are able to do. I guess you have to keep everything in Colorado.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:04

Uh in a way, yes and no. I'm gonna quote Slatan since it's a World Cup, I would say. Regulations are for regular people.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:11

Uh yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:12

I mean, we live in the real world, you know. We're definitely we abide by local regulations, which gives us the peace of mind to be able to do what we do here, uh, but we're by no means limited um by regulations. I think that is why we are doing what we are doing, right? We believe in in access first and you know, doing everything ethical, which to us the most important thing is always quality over everything. Um but yeah, we we're a genetics bank. So similar to cannabis genetics, we don't really we're not limited by the state regs. When it comes to, let's say, finished products, right, or cultivating in order to test our genetics, then yes, we grow in Colorado where you can legally grow, possess, and share. And there's some limits to to your growth. There's no limits to possession currently, there is limits to how you can share now. But um mainly we're a genetics bank, right? So what we could do is more what impacts us is the DEA announcement that uh put cannabis seeds under the farm bill because they mentioned uh psychedelic mushroom spores in the same announcement. But there's no real regulations that would limit uh what we do. It's it's the old school guys, right? Like the OGs that said this is for research purpose only, for microscopic use only. Now the DEA says the spores fall under the farm bill, and states can make it stricter. So states like Florida, California, Georgia are some states that try to make uh the sale or uh of spores illegal, but we're not as limited as somebody who would have a cultivation license or manufacturing license or a healing center license. So for that, we do sit as uh on the board of a company here in Colorado, which is called Sont S O N T. And there we just receive the license for cultivation and manufacturing. For that, we 100% are limited to the state.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:20

Awesome, dude. That sounds amazing. I I love the idea that this is happening. Are there many other states in the US that are allowing this?

SPEAKER_02 1:14:28

Yeah, Oregon was the first. Yeah. We're the second, and then there's several states that have you know initiatives, there's several cities that have decriminalized uh New Mexico. I don't know if it's officially like in place yet, but New Mexico uh passed regulations to legalize at a state level. I don't know if like their uh state licensing has already been awarded, so on and so forth. But there's there's it's I mean it's moving similar to cannabis, and I would say quicker because it's gaining more acceptance through having more clinical trials and education put forward first. And of course, the veterans are helping a lot because they're receiving a lot of help too from this natural medicine. So it's moving quick from a regulatory perspective.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:18

And is it moving more towards like medical recreational or is it more broad? Because I they always try to pack it in somewhere, and I feel that uh both of those things would be very different in regards to access.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:32

I'd say it's moving different, right? Like I think, I mean, cannabis is all like alternative medicine to begin with, right? You don't get it well in Canada, it's different, but in the US, you don't get it at the pharmacy, you get it at the dispensary. Yeah, and you know, recreational versus medical is just that you go to the doctor, pay him $100 to tell him you have chronic pain to go to medical and get a tax break versus skipping all that and just going to wreck and paying a little more in tax, at least at this point in Colorado. So it is launched as an alternative medicine, uh, right? Like insurance isn't covering it, to my knowledge, at least. Um, and then like the state protects you from 280 tax code, but at a federal level, it's still scheduled one. So it's very similar, right? The biggest difference is neither Oregon nor Colorado set a framework where you can go purchase and take it with you. It's a healing center where you need to go and receive preparation, then the actual facilitation with a natural medicine and then some integration. Awesome. So you got to take it there, basically, is the point, right? You gotta which makes it very expensive because then you're paying for services not only to begin the preparation, but also the facilitation. If it's like you said, hero doses, you're there for six to eight hours, and you're having to pay for at least one or more than one facilitator to be there with you during that experience.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:01

And so you guys help people have the experience of kind of cultivating mushrooms, right? They can buy the bag and it's inoculated, it's ready to go. I don't, do you even need to case the thing? Nothing. It's already cased. You just buy the bag, do you open it, or only once it's done?

SPEAKER_02 1:17:17

No, yeah. I mean, we we try to guarantee success in cultivating, you know, your own natural medicine for lack of other terms, but um, it's a blessing and a curse, right? Because I think part of the cultivation journey is also that failure. But there's not everybody would try again. So we try to take into consideration the whole journey, right? So we can offer you myco bag, which is a pre-inoculated, fully colonized bag that when you receive it, you can set it on your countertop, like your kitchen or whatever, your office, and it'll fruit. And all you have to do is open it when you go to harvest the mushrooms. So that would be the people have to be stoked on that, bro. Yeah, I mean, starting with Ruben, right? Like he was the first one, so stoked to have created a whole company out of it in Europe and give people access. So, yeah, people are stoked, but then there's some people that are like, amazing. Now I want to try different strains, like you said, right? In the same easy-to-grow method. And so we give them different varieties inside of the micro bag. But some people are like, cool, I already harvested, now I want to get more involved. So then we could give you a bag that has the grain and substrate, and then you pick whatever culture you want, and you simply inoculate it into that bag, and then you know, it'll take longer than the micro bag, but after several weeks, you have fruit. Then there's the people that say, Cool, I did that enough. Now I want to cook my own grain, or I want to make my own substrate, or I want to just get a little more involved, right? At which point you can sell them stable genetics so that at least from a genetic perspective, you can almost guarantee what the results will be, as long as their process is clean, their grain is clean, etc. etc. Right. There's more variables they're controlling because they want it to get more involved. Yeah. Then you get to the point where more advanced growers are like amazing, man. Like, you know, I'm growing and these stable genetics are cool, but I want to do some pheno hunting, or I want to get different morphologies to choose from, right? I just want more variance within my cultures, and so we can offer earlier generation or newer genetics.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:36

So a question for the for the for the medium grower, the guy that's wants to grow his own, but he's new at it, are you guys pointing them out like this is the pressure cooker, you need a transfer chamber, or whatever it is that you guys need? I don't know what the SOPs are anymore. That that's just what it was when I was doing it back in the 90s. Um do you guys kind of point people in the right direction or sell that equipment?

SPEAKER_02 1:19:59

We're trying to right now, yeah. We started to sell like LC pre-mix, right? So if you want to make your own LC, then here's the pre-mixed uh that you need in order to just mix it with powder and make it. We're definitely trying to get better. So we're we're trying to launch in our website a knowledge-based section where we can then more so hold your hand through the mycology journey. Uh but right now we do do it. The only way we do it is more manual, right? So people can call into the company phone or me and spoon, they could email us. And part of what we do on a daily basis is getting back to the customers so that we can give them that advice depending on where in the journey they are.

SPEAKER_09 1:20:43

Okay. It is patience and not knowing what you're looking at for people that are getting into it. So, you know, and I think you know, anybody that's gotten into mushrooms or growing anything has run into the thing where you're like, oh, like this color is weird. Is that contamination or is that what I'm actually looking for? You know, I have no idea because I'm new. So it's nice being able to answer questions from people that are at all spectrums of the experience list because you get, you know, the broad range of people that are beginners that don't know anything, and then you got to tell them, you know, about you know, the trichoderma or bacteria, the different colors you want to avoid, and that that white stuff that's growing out isn't mold, it's just the mycelium, you know, doing what it does.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:32

Do you find spoon that there are some uh sort of species that are are harder to cultivate than others?

SPEAKER_09 1:21:40

Yeah, definitely. So, like a good a good intro is you know, if you're doing the psychedelics is psilocybecubensis. So that's the broadest one that most people can grow with you know few issues. Uh when you get into the more exotics, like what you were talking about earlier, the uh subtropicalis, the zapidochorums, the penalius cyanescence, even psilocybe cyanescence, which is wavy caps, all of these are gonna have, you know, zapatocorum grows in landslides. And psilocybe cyanescence or penaleus cyanescence grows right next to psilocyde or uh cubensis on cow dung. So you can use the same substrate for like a Pinaleus cyanescence, which is a bit more potent than your cubensis. But generally speaking, the more exotic you get, the more oxygen requirements you have, and the more specifics you need. Like some of these require a bacteria to be active in order to fruit. So that means that you want to pasteurize and sterilize, that you keep that bacteria in the or in there, or inoculate it with that bacteria afterwards. Others are just very specific in the conditions. You know, some of them are growing in cloud forests, some of them are growing close to the water. So you just need to dial in your the amount of water, the environment, the nutrition, all of that stuff in order to get some of these more exotic species, which can give you a different experience. You know, they're very similar to a cubensis experience, but some people say that some of these are more spiritual or you know, the most visual experience I had was on a Pinellius cyanescence. So yeah, you get you get slightly different experiences. The potency is going to be wildly different than some of these, also. So if somebody ever gives you a Pinellius cyanescence and they're recommending you take three grams, you know, don't do it. Like that like one gram or plus, you know, a even a gram.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:53

I was at a fish show when someone gave me those mushrooms, and I'm telling you, dude, I thought halfway through that trip, I thought they had they had to have like dipped them into liquid LSD or something. I was like, these this is not possible that I am this high. I was so fucking uncomfortably high for like hours. Thank God I got through it. The other thing was, and I don't know if it was my perception, but it when I went to go outside, the guy said, if you leave, you can't come back. And I remember the door opened and someone left, and it was just all people like bugging out in the hallway. And I was like, this was in Bangor, Maine, by the way, like the as east as you can go in like in Maine, like way over in Bangor. And uh yeah, 94, 94, no, 94, 96, 95. I I think it was 94, because it was the year I went to the Halloween show uh in in Glen's Falls, New York. Anyway, yeah, those pans are no joke. That is even when you said a little bit stronger than Silicon, I was like, not the ones I took, dude. I even saw those people afterwards and I gave them a big hug and I was like, listen, like for a while I thought you guys were nefarious and dosed me on LSD. I was he's like, yeah, bro, the pans, dude. I'm like, holy shit, the pans, bro. Like, what are you doing? Not telling me.

SPEAKER_09 1:25:16

Yeah, definitely. And like, you know, some people might not know what they have, but it's always good to ask, you know, like, is this cubensis? Because then you have like a good range of, you know, an you know, aspects.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:28

This was when we called them all mushrooms. What do you got there?

SPEAKER_09 1:25:31

I got some mushrooms, I'll take them. Yeah, you just pick them off a cow patty or something, and yeah, the cubensis is growing right next to the Penalea cyanescence. So then you're taking, you know, like a three or a four percent experience versus like your average one percent on cubensis.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:49

So, you know. Do you think that the number one sort of skill to hold or ability to hold for growing mushrooms would be just like a high level of awareness? Like, what do you think separates a successful grower from someone who's absolutely constantly fighting contamination?

SPEAKER_09 1:26:08

I think it's just your processes. So most people uh yeah, I think like patience is the number one thing, especially when you get more into exotics. Some of these take months to fruit. Um, so I think like patience is the number one thing, and then just awareness of what you're doing, if you can document what you're doing, uh, and then just refining your process. So, like your grain is going to be where 90% of your contamination comes from. That's where most people have their problems. So when you sterilize your grain and you know, you're fairly certain that your other things are clean, your genetics and your substrate, you know, your grain process, I think, is the most important for beginners.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:54

Like you mean transferring your inoculant into your grain?

SPEAKER_09 1:26:57

Oh, sorry, like actually cooking and sterilizing your grain.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:00

Okay. How do you guys move it? Like, is I always thought the transfer of where it was going to where it needed to be was like the vector of like, ooh, this is that definitely is.

SPEAKER_09 1:27:12

I think uh, you know, when we've been in it for a while now. So being in front of the flow hood, working the genetics, moving things from agar plates or into liquid culture, that's definitely an area where you can get contamination if you're not very careful. I think we're at the point now where we've had, I think, less than 1% failure on liquid cultures. So, you know, maybe like one jar this year, we've had contaminate and liquid culture and fewer plates. And grain, I think, is the thing that it's a high, it's a very high nutrition, and you're transferring your liquid culture or your spores or your agar plate into your grain. And because Grain has such a high nutrition, and normally you're making a decent amount of it, it's much more likely for your grain to contaminate. And that's like the step that you need before you put it into your substrate if you're doing everything from scratch. But yeah, I think patience making sure that you're going through, you know, alcoholing everything, cleaning up your surfaces, making sure that it's clean, you're being aware of your breath because we're dirty, you know, your skin sloughs off. Yeah, some of those like skin particles or hair fall into something, that'll contaminate it. So I think, yeah, just patience, you know, being aware of what you're doing is very important because a lot of people just like to be on autopilot and do things. But if you're getting trichoderma or bacterial contamination all of the time, you know, I always look to grain as the first as the first area of contamination, and then your liquid culture or your substrate after that.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:02

You guys have an interest in moving into lion's mane and cordyceps and these medicinal mushrooms. Are you pretty focused on um psychedelic ones right now?

SPEAKER_09 1:29:12

We have lion's mane on our website. So, yeah, we do lion's mane. Um, we're working with another party that does uh a lot of the gourmet genetics to get those on our websites right now. The same guy that gives us our uh uh premix for liquiculture that we saw on our website, Mossy Creek Mushrooms. He is a fantastic like wealth of knowledge for gourmet mushrooms. So we're we're looking uh to get some of his genetics on our website. Um, some of the ones like cordyceps, the life cycle of them is significantly lower than something like uh Maitake or an oyster or a cubensis. So we probably wouldn't do cordyceps genetics, but other products that include cordyceps, we would definitely get into.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:03

They they all grow in my backyard, dude. I swear to God. In fact, it was probably 25 years ago before I knew what cordyceps was. I was just like in the bush, kind of like climbing up the cliff face, and I found these like grasshoppers that were like totally gone. They were just like exoskeletons, but they had these big fucking mushrooms growing out of the tops of their heads. And I was like, what the fuck is this crazy shit? I haven't seen Yeah, I haven't seen them since dude. They were like uh making them go to the highest point, right? Before the mushroom spores out. And I'm like, holy shit, this is wild.

SPEAKER_09 1:30:46

Hijacks the system. Holy shit. Then it basically envelops them and then it pops out with a Cheeto that then sporiulates.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:53

And dude, the argument could be made that this has happened to you and Sante. Very true. That you guys are doing the mushrooms work, it's got you guys fucking pumping out bags and liquid cultures, and holy shit.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:12

It's amazing. We are mushrooms having a human experience.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:15

Yeah, the well, the dip the mushrooms definitely gotten into you. It's like, oh yeah. I think uh that's an interesting perspective on Bowman. You gotta send us some of those cultures that are in your backyard. I'll send you anything you want, man. As long as it's legal. Yeah, uh, yes. Did you see my Rishi? Yeah, I picked that, I picked that in the backyard. By the way, this this weighs like like uh like an ounce. It's super, super light, but it's really big. Fucking beautiful, beautiful mushroom conks. I just uh that's all I had. I had uh a couple of little conks. I like this one, it looks almost like a Garrakon, but it's not. Um, and then my red belted polypore that I showed earlier, which is really nice.

SPEAKER_09 1:32:08

Nice, yeah, those look great. Yeah, Rishi and like the gourmet mushrooms are really, really interesting and unique, you know, like there's nothing like lion's mane out there, right? It's just this interesting tendril-like fruiting body. And same with portage. You got the same keto growing off of an insect, you know, out in nature, and somebody just decided to eat it and they got a lot of energy from it, and we're like, hmm, let's cultivate that.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:34

Yeah.

unknown 1:32:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:36

Well, Rishi's magical for sure. It all I if you guys ever come visit me, we will pick mushrooms no matter what time of year you come here, because they are all right now, lobsters and oysters are exploding all over the property behind me. And I'm sure there's probably morels and there's definitely chanterelles, both Goldens and Winters, golden foots, um, and all sorts of other things, like pig's ear, and you could definitely pick like 15 different types of edible mushrooms. And generally, the group that I go out with, you know, we we cook every single thing that we pick. We don't we're we're like, just leave it there if you're not gonna eat it like tonight. And so we'll cook like, you know, just pounds of winter chanterelles into a soup. And you're eating this soup, and I'm telling you, it literally tastes like the forest floor. It's the most incredible. And everyone's just like, I don't even like mushrooms, but this is incredible. It's like, yeah, because what you think a mushroom is and what you're currently consuming are two very, very, very different things. I might have to go look at my for mushrooms just later on today, just because after all these mushroom conversations.

SPEAKER_09 1:33:48

Yeah, the flavors of mushrooms are really interesting because like they're very meaty, right? So you can use lion's mane as like a crab. I love lion's mane. So there's a lot of substitutes, you know, if people are looking to eat healthier, where you know, here in the US, we look at mushrooms and it's like the baby bells or whatever you get on your pizza. Yeah. And people are starting to understand, oh, like I can use this as like a meat substitute, or you know, maybe I get a very nice flavor out of something like an oyster mushroom or a Maitake.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:21

Yeah. We even find different flavor profiles within the cubes.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:25

I bet. Of course. How could you not traversing the fungal terpenome?

SPEAKER_09 1:34:32

Yeah, some of them are very nutty, like when you get into the uh sclerosia producing ones, the ones that produce the little rocks. We've been messing around with those more recently, and the like the nutty aromas that you get from these are pretty wild. So it's like similar. Yeah, yeah, it's it's cool. Yeah, like the most energetic I've ever been on was on a gallon sclerosia. I took like 0.2 grams of it, and I just had I was wired. It was it was pretty nuts.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:04

That's awesome crazy to think of how they rely on those aromas to reproduce in nature.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:10

Oh, yeah. Well, those aromas are the are the are the oldest living language on the planet predating everything else. How about that? Traversing the fungal terpenome. Look up that paper. It's a crazy paper. It's in my all things terpenes, I believe, Facebook group. I'll try to find it and send you guys the link because uh yeah, traversing the fungal terpenoid. I'm pretty sure that's in all things terpenes. Oh, there's all things cannabis photography.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:42

I have too many groups.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:46

I have too many things, too many groups, damn it. If I can find it.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:50

A living ecosystem of groups.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:53

Oh, I think I changed the group to volatile organic compounds. Vox. I guess I wanted to include more than just uh terpenes. Let's see if I I can find this paper and share it with you. Traversing the fungal terpenome.

SPEAKER_04 1:36:13

Yeah, that's like a pretty regular no, I don't see it.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:18

I'm gonna have to Google it. I know I posted it in one of my groups and people were like, what the fuck is that? And basically it's it's this language of how these things sequester compounds from one another through the hyphae, how they do all sorts of different things, how they can transmutate like like genetic skills. Like I can take uh calcium and squirt out this liquid that uh liquefies the calcium like acid, and then I can inhale. Mushrooms could be growing next to that mushroom and learn how to do that and and could and take it on. And now that mushroom can do that, which is like kind of goes against everything that we know uh about evolution. Do you know how fucking crazy that is? That's that fucking that's those jet uh fractal DMT elves jumping in and out of Terrence's chest saying, don't be amazed, just do what we're doing. Creating objects with our voices. That is crazy.

SPEAKER_09 1:37:17

Of how Panaleocyanescence uh developed alkaloids is that because they grow next to cubensis in nature, over time, there was a transfer of DNA through bacteria or some other way, because you know, Panaleocyanescence and cubinsence are very far apart on the you know, DNA-wise. So they shouldn't be able to mate together. So there's some other way maybe that Panaleo cyanescence was able to become psychedelic.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:49

Look, I found it traversing the fungal terpenome. What year is that from? This is from oh, where's the year? It's definitely on PubMed. Uh it should have the year right there. I don't know. I'll have to do some more um research on it. I'll send you the link though. 2014 in the software, I think. Oh, 2014. Scroll back to the top.

SPEAKER_04 1:38:18

Yeah, right there.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:19

Oh, there it is. There it is. October 31st, Halloween. So, yeah, if you too want to traverse the fungal turpenoid, I will put that into the chat both here on YouTube and privately with the full canopy and Colin crew.

SPEAKER_04 1:38:41

There we go.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:43

So, you guys excited for where Colorado or where the mushroom world is going? Like, where do you guys see this kind of going right now? Is there a lot of momentum? Is there excitement? Are you guys in a in a pretty good place?

SPEAKER_02 1:38:56

I would say so. I mean, yeah, we're currently doing what we love and having fun, which uh even though you could be in the space like cannabis or mushrooms, whatever it might be, right? It's easy to sometimes catch yourself doing a little too much or being a little too stressed over whatever, whatever that might be. I don't know what you're talking about. It's a blessing having lived through different, you know, life uh experiences to be able to say currently we are doing what we love, which is just innovating. Uh F-A-F-O, fuck around, find out, and having fun doing it. So yeah. Where is it going? I mean, I think there's a that's a spider web question where we can talk about regulations, like developments inside the lab, uh, what we were finding in nature, right? We know less than 10% of what's out there. Um, there's good and bad, right? The risks that you mentioned earlier with uh the people that are facilitating these experiences, what is truly their intention, uh, they're very important in all this. Um, for us, I don't know. I mean, to answer the question a little selfishly, right? Like what we are focused on is just the genetics continuing to uh develop and and stabilize what's already developed by nature. I think one of the coolest tools that we currently have right now is the NIR to bring you know Ruben, Michael back back into the conversation, Valenberas. I know you're a big fan of the machine from a cannabis perspective, and really what we're doing within mushrooms is following that footprint, right? Like currently, we can already test psilocybin psilocin and total the minor alkaloids. And we've developed alongside labs, like we uh Spoon mentioned Magic Michael earlier. Triptomics has been a lab, uh the lab out of Colorado. They're they're a very good, well-respected lab here. And uh they're the ones that have been helping us lately to continue to improve the tool. So, yeah, I think where is it heading for us? What's exciting is to utilize that tool. You could talk about it better than I can. I think I get excited hearing you talk about it, right? But just the the quantity of data that we can get to answer whatever question we might have. It might be something as silly as what is the variance of potency within the same flush, or you know, anything from that. But uh, like you could do anything with that to one.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:30

It's pretty amazing for sure. I love the fact that you guys are the Valenveras crew in Colorado too. I I forget sometimes. I'm like, oh shit, like I could get a unit right now and be fucking testing right now. I love my unit. I'm so blessed to have it. Uh, I try to keep it busy as often as possible. I haven't done much with the psilocybin and psilocin uh version of that. I wonder, you know, if if we'll be able to uncover using these sort of analytical tools, where to focus next. I mean, is it like cannabis? Everyone's trying to get more THC, like everyone's trying to get the tryptamine number up. Is that what psilocybin mushrooms are doing for the most part? Or are we focused on yes and no, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:42:16

The cup here in Colorado, which is the current cup. There's been some before, I'm sure there's going to be some after, but the current cup, it not only awards for higher totals or higher psilocybin or psilocin, but it's got awards for every alkaloid we could currently identify with HBLC. And it also has an award for um lowest, lowest potency.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:41

So is this all awards based on COAs, or do people like eat these?

SPEAKER_02 1:42:46

Based on COAs, and there's some on like have you know like an epoxy here, so we like take some like look. Is that Enigma or something? There's a hydra, but it's very similar looking.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:59

Throw that closer to your camera for half a second. Oh shit, dude. Fuck.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:05

So some like arts. Looks like a melted brain. Yeah, it is. Coral reef brain. Uh, point being is like I think we took the lessons learned from cannabis, right? We luckily cannabis did lead the way in a lot of ways. Uh, and and lessons learned is for however long we bred for higher THC, right? Higher THC, higher THC, and then where do the minors or the more balanced profiles go? So we're trying to avoid that. A lot of the genetic development is done blindly. Like it's important to look at COAs, just it's it is important to get feedback, right? I was gonna ask you, you you talked about baycystin nor baocystin having something to do with higher visuals. I don't know if you got that from people's feedback and conversations or if there's a paper that says that.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:51

That was our own experiences that we had with it. I I didn't know anything about it. My friends picked it and said, Oh, these ones that they call them bluebells, I believe. Not to be cons uh confused with the Liberty Caps, which were semilenciatas, these were bale cystin mushrooms. And I think maybe Paul Stammens had said something about it. There was if you punch in bale cystin mushrooms and you know put in the word visual or ask ChatGPT, I I suspect you'll find something. To me, I felt like I also didn't get to do that mushroom very often, but the few times that I did, I really found it to have. I'm not saying like I saw elephants dancing, but just like more tracers and more like visuals and more like shadow kind of like what was that? Like, did you see that? Just it was different. I I quite enjoyed uh the vibe of that mushroom. It was a little less uh intense and a little more interesting. Yeah, yeah. But you should you should definitely grow some.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:01

We look at the COA and it's like wow, I'm surprised that is so low because consistently people say that this feels very strong. So it could even be that the seven alkaloids we could currently see, there's some other one we can't see that when it is present, even in minor um percentages, it can make the experience feel more or less. Or something we currently already see, right? We have a culture that has the highest arduan of what they've tested. And what does that mean? We're not really sure, right? But people give us feedback, maybe we could start to make ties of like, oh, consistently higher Bayocistin results in more visuals, higher arduan can result in XYZ. So answer your question, both COAs and these type of conversations are equally important. For sure. Very cool.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:58

That is incredible, man. I um, you know, the mushroom never went far for me. There was a time where I was consuming it a lot during doing these Terrence McKenna heroic dose trips with my friends and growing it and being super involved. And even after that, I I kept always being around it. And eventually I just started, I went from, you know, being able to see large amounts of it kind of in the in the gray and black market to you know in the 90s, to just making sure that I have a relationship with the mushrooms by going out into the forest and walking on the microrhizosphere of all of these trees that I suspect is absolutely communicating with all of the other uh mycelium that's down there. It's an absolute pleasure and uh uh you know honor, really, to be able to go into the forest. I'm at my happiest when I'm in the forest. I either like to be snowboarding, I either want to be like picking mushrooms or hiking, just like being engulfed in the forest, which is I live in the forest. I'm engulfed in the forest right now as I sit here. Um, and I I love it. I don't think the forest could be here without those mushrooms either.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:11

I think that's important too for life, just to have a relationship with nature, whatever that might be, right? Even if you're in a city, at least when you walk past a tree, notice it. Or, you know, like what you are right now, which is living with within the forest, just have a relationship with nature. Another part that we like of the product, right? We can bring nature to your countertop. But uh, like for example, my mom, the first bag that I gave her, she was too intimidated to even cut it open and harvest it. But just having had the relationship of growing mushrooms in your house on your countertop and watching it happen took her that little step further into having a better relationship with nature.

SPEAKER_03 1:47:57

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:58

The first bag I gave my mom, he says. I remember I had my mom make a batch of full melt in the early 2000s. I was like, you gotta see how easy this is, mom. And she whipped up the poly's melt. Six star first time. I was like, see, all you had to do is follow directions. I didn't even do it for you. Back in the day where we just make six star bubble hash with a cake mixer, a two-prong cake mixer. It's so funny how people are like, no, you need you can't mix like that. You gotta mix it's like, listen, I mixed using the shittiest mix technology on the planet and still made six-star fucking bubble hash. So, what do you have to say about that? I should do hash church in a forest one of these days.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:44

The only thing I would have to say is you gotta share some of this.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:47

Of course. You guys ever come to the Pacific Northwest? You ever get out of Colorado? Or how like how locked into are you guys into the mushroom? Like, there's so someone's gotta be there all the time caring for that shit.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:59

Recently we got to travel together.

SPEAKER_09 1:49:01

Yeah, yeah. We've had opportunities to travel abroad, and we definitely have, and it's great. But yeah, like being gone for more than a week is uh is is hard.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:11

A dangerous game, if you will.

SPEAKER_09 1:49:14

Yeah, we're dealing with a living thing, right? So you got to make sure that your cultures are good, your backups, you know, the temperature in your rooms doesn't get too hot and everything. So, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:24

And what about the understanding that it has on the relationship? Like they've been they've been talking about. I think this guy like hooked up his plants to like EEG monitors, which is crazy because we had a guy do an EEG, which you guys may have an appreciation for. We had this guy, Israel, come on here like three weeks ago, and he's like attaching the EEGs to people's brains and monitoring how high they get off different products. And he's using like eons of EEG data that he can add into the algorithm and aggregate it all through this AI. And it's fucking pretty cool, man. Like, imagine the contest you're entering also has. Oh, we also want to see who has the highest you know results from the brain scan of the person who's on that mushroom. I just thought that was uh a pretty cool, cool concept.

SPEAKER_02 1:50:13

Very interesting. You got to bring them over here.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:16

Yeah, well, we will. I think he spends time in Colorado for some reason. I think he's in like Quebec or or Montreal, Montreal, Quebec or something like that. It would be uh yeah, it would be very good. I love the idea of the sort of the future catching up. To me, especially for what you guys are doing, you know, you and the same way we discovered through Nick Ziegler and his work with hops and all the thiols that were discovered because of, you know, these these chemists that basically jerry-rigged some equipment together so they could perceive in this entirely tiny universe, right? Beyond a billionth, I believe, um, thiols and thiolates. So I'm sure there are compounds growing in the mushroom that we have no idea are necessarily there because we don't have equipment set up to perceive them. And so that's what I kind of was saying in regards to if this guy can set up an EEG or an EKG to a plant, and a plant can know when a person is two kilometers or two miles within driving home, because that's the person that cares for them and feeds them water and nutrients, they kind of perk up. And this guy, not the same guy I had on the show, but another guy, he had a he was doing these experiments with plants. And if you look to one of Terrence McKenna's books called Trialogues at the Edge of the West, this is a book of conversations that he did with Ralph Abraham, who's a fractal mathematician, and Rupert Sheldake, uh Sheldrake, who's a um whose son Merlin Sheldrake is deeply into mushrooms now and has written an amazing book. And he's got he's got his whole other thing going on. But Rupert wrote about morphogenetic resonance theory. He wrote about how a dog knows when you're coming home way before you get home, right? It's this, it's this morphogenetic resonance that his theory, anyway, really it kind of rewrote biology. Um, and that's very much what that plant thing is. It's very much Rupert's morphogenetic resonance theory. He was doing it with mammals, he didn't do it with plants, but imagine what the relationship is with the mushroom. How much does the mushroom know that's going on? You know, because you you guys are doing it with the mushroom, like in my opinion, not for the mushroom. Like the mushroom is an active partner of both of you guys. That's how I'm trying to see it too. Yeah, it's awesome. It's really cool. I just wonder what level of consciousness these mushrooms have. How much do they know what's going on? Are they all excited? Are they like, yeah, we're gonna get like people like out of their heads, we're gonna like crush demonic intelligence, we're gonna like reset neuroplasticity and like positivity. And uh I just I think it's you know, not religious, but I think it's God's work.

SPEAKER_02 1:53:00

I would say we can't prove it, right? But I mean, if if the mushrooms can absorb the energy around them, which we've seen with radiation and so on, then hopefully the energy that we have in our workspace and our living space would resemble what we would want the mushrooms to absorb. So hopefully you said it better than anybody I've heard. Hopefully, someone can come over here and show us whether they do or don't get excited when we're coming home.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:28

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Plug in that little unit, dude. They're super stoked right now.

SPEAKER_05 1:53:33

Oh shit.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:36

That's so good. Spoon's like, coming home, when do I leave? Dude's just got the lab coat on, working with the mushies.

SPEAKER_09 1:53:45

It's it's interesting because, like, you were talking about earlier, right? And like with the mycelium in the forest, you know, there's mycelium that can trade nutrients and you know, do all of these crazy things that benefit the ecology. So in like reintroducing it into farming, also, right? Like you see these tests that they're doing where our farming methods without a lot of mycelium in the ground cause shallower root systems than you know, you go out to a Pacific Northwest forest or where you're living, those root systems are probably very deep that sequesters a lot of CO2. And by reintroducing mycelium, you know, into our lives through, you know, farming and other things, you can really help the environment around you just by making things healthier. I mean, we we see it in like our potted plants where we'll throw a little bit of the myceliated grain of spent block into these plants, uh, into these jars, and the plant will then start to fruit or it'll become more healthy, you know, it'll just be a more vibrant color. So there's definitely something to being said, you know, it's like not just with cubensis, but with all of these other mushrooms, you know, reintroducing them into our lives and having a better relationship with them, you know, whether it helps your diets, whatever you're growing, your mindset, there's a plethora of uses for all of these different, these different varieties.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:17

I mean, they have their own kingdom, they have to be important. There's only a few of those kingdoms, and they got one of them. I'm like, damn, this guy's got their own kingdom and everything.

SPEAKER_09 1:55:27

It's definitely been neglected. You know, fungi, I remember growing up, and it was the kind of it was the kingdom that was kind of ignored. You're like, oh, there are these mushrooms, and they decompose things, and you know, that's about all you learned. But now there's so much, especially looking at China, they've done so much with mushrooms.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:46

It's like the world would collapse without them, but don't worry about it. They're fine. They they they just consume things. Is that what they do? I'm glad to have them in my life. I'm glad to have gotten turned on to Terence at such a young age and gone down that rabbit hole and been like and been able to order. I'll tell you, even when we ordered those spores, it was kind of surreal. It was like you just the woman signed Kat McKenna. I was like, whoa, this is like Terence's wife that we just bought these spores off of. Syzygy. I was like, my goodness. I really I'll tell you, if I ever did have one minor regret, I sure wish that I had that syzygy spore still uh going. That being said, there's been so many amazing mushrooms and spores come and go from my life that uh I'm I'm grateful. I'm not complaining at all.

SPEAKER_09 1:56:38

I think that's part of the beauty of it too, right? It's like we want to keep these things around, but like moving forward and figuring things out or you know, maybe breeding other things together to create something new is also like extremely beneficial.

SPEAKER_01 1:56:53

Well, I'll tell you, if ever Canada gets on the boat and makes things legal here, I want to be first in line to bring mico bags and full canopy to Canada. Like, dude. That means a lot, thank you. Yeah, man. I love what you guys have going on. Ted even Ted, Ted came with me last time, right? Yeah, yeah. He was just like, we gotta go back and see your mushroom friends. He's in Cyprus right now. No way, yeah. Yeah, he's like he's uh he's at a wedding right now. So shout out to you, Ted, if you're listening. And uh yeah, we'll have the world next time I come back. I was awesome coming and seeing you guys. He was just like so like, he's like, those guys gave me so many like chocolate bars and like those chocolate bars you guys have with the little like mini, those were like semilinciata mushrooms to me, the Liberty Caps, the the three on the I thought that was so classy. I wish I had the picture to bring up right now because it just looked such what a nice thing to be able to do. Make a chocolate bar, but make each, you know, square a certain amount and have the beautiful mushroom like stamped right into it. I really did think that was super classy. I will say too, a mushroom picture almost just like that was very important in my life because um, you know, one of these coincidences. I don't know if you guys ever read any Robert Anton Wilson, but he wrote a book called The Coincidence, not the coincidence, but the coincidence. Um, and it's very much about like how the weirdness occurs in life and how you know you're on the right path when you when you've when you're having that shit happen. And anyway, my wife in Manitoba went to this place called the Forks to buy a t-shirt for me for like my birthday or something. And she had heard through the grapevine that there was a guy selling cool embroidered shirts at this place. Now, she went and saw the shirts. The guy wasn't working, his sister was working, he was traveling. These shirts were all from Kathmandu, Nepal, and they were hand embroidered. They were the circular, perfect hand embroideries. Anyway, my wife looked at them all and they were like Grateful Dead ones and some other things, and she was kind of like, you know, I just wasn't feeling it. So she said, well, thanks. And she went to walk away. But the girl was like, Oh, actually, my brother told me I could show this, these shirts to a certain group of people, kind of that are cool. And so she pulls out this shirt, and it's a mushroom embroidery of those, like almost the same one that you guys have on that chocolate bar, which is another reason why it really resonated with me. Well, say fast forward a year later, I'm at a Neil Young concert in British Columbia, and the shirt was bought in Winnipeg, by the way. I'm in a concert in British Columbia, like 2,500 miles or two, you know, 1800 miles away from Winnipeg. And this guy sees me and he sees the shirt and he's like trying to catch me. By the way, I move like an hour pretty fast when I'm by myself. And this guy was like, holy shit, dude. I was he's like, fuck, you're hard to find catch up with. Anyway, this guy was the brother of the sister who sold my wife the shirt, and I was now wearing the shirt. He doesn't know any of this. He just knows that his friend from Montreal designed that shirt and he took that design to Kathmandu Nepal and had it created. And now he's seeing it at a Neil Young uh show in British Columbia. And that's how I met Alex Twaywski, who I would later introduce to Martin and John, all my hemp partners. Alex would become an integral part in starting Manitoba Harvest. Uh, and he was kind of ended up being one of my partners. It was a very big coincidence and a very big like thing in my life that really was connected to a mushroom that, like, fuck, I gotta find the shirt and send you guys a picture because uh it's not far off from the one that you guys had stamped on that chocolate bar. Where did you guys get that logo from?

SPEAKER_02 2:00:51

I mean, from nowhere. I just made it up. Yeah, I would you know, just from somewhere a bowl, a mold to be made specifically for us with this and that. This thing like it it happened. Yeah, it wasn't like put this logo on this.

SPEAKER_01 2:01:04

Yeah, that's okay. It's still somewhere, it's not nowhere.

SPEAKER_02 2:01:08

Yeah, I mean, it's interesting. Everything you said, the place the first place I worked was at a hookah smoke shop that was called Kathmandu because the owner would go to Kathmandu Nepal and buy a bunch of things and bring it back to the store.

SPEAKER_01 2:01:21

Nagchampa fucking store. Serendipitous. Why does this hookah taste like Nagchampa? Oh, it's because we have 14 tons of it in the back room. People go to uh India and they're like, Nagchampa, I can buy this for one cent a stick. For sure I can sell this for at least 10 cents a stick. I'm 10xing my money. It's like, yeah, until you realize you can only sell six boxes of it, not 60,000. I'm not a big incense guy myself. I do love uh, like for me when I'm on mushrooms in particular, I love puffing hash. I love the incense aroma of hash. I do uh really have to say that sometimes it's over the top how much hash I'll smoke. And I used to smoke hash, get this, out of a soap stone. I I might still have one of my Indian soapstone pipes. I do. So are you guys familiar with sacred Indian pulp uh soapstone, pipe stone, whatever? It's a red stone. This is sacred Indian pipe stone. You can see there's a a native guy bent over praying, he's like on his knees, and then you can see the buffalo and the grizzly bear over here, and then over here you can see like the hands of God holding the bowl with the goddess on the inside of the bowl. That's beautiful. Or is that all carved, or this is all hand-carved, yeah, by my friend Noelle. And then, of course, the eagle.

SPEAKER_09 2:02:51

Yeah, that's really beautiful. I love how everything blends into everything. Very, very cool.

SPEAKER_01 2:02:57

Dude, this is like a museum piece. I would I couldn't even imagine what the value of this thing is to me. It's just priceless. Um, this particular one, because uh he did not have permission to smoke out of it, he made a point on not uh drilling it all the way through. So this pipe cannot be smoked out of this particular one. Maybe one day uh I'll get permission uh from a group or I'll get it back into the hands. Oh, yeah. On the other side of the buffalo is the most important thing, community, the teepee's and the fire carved in with another guy praying. Now, if you notice the guy praying, he comes out of the hands of God and he's holding the hands of the goddess on top. You see her hands, she's holding the hands of both indigenous guys on either on either side of her, right here. She's holding the hands.

SPEAKER_09 2:03:55

So beautiful. Yeah, wow.

SPEAKER_01 2:03:58

So sick.

SPEAKER_09 2:03:58

The amount of craftsmanship to go into that isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 2:04:01

Oh my god, you can't even see it really well, but her hair is insane. The carving of her hair is literally surreal. Even her face. It's like as if you manage to like carve that into stone. This dude that carved this, he's like six foot seven. He's a big dude. That's a good friend of mine from Manitoba, native kid by the name of Noel. Shout out to Noel if you're watching. He used to carve all sorts of beautiful things for me. Yeah, he would carve bears, dancing bears. He carved an eagle statue that is still in Manitoba that I have to get that I gave to my father. It was a soapstone eagle statue, like about this tall. It was incredible, big wings. And yeah, I remember I actually I had to buy a plane seat for that, for that. I had to buy a ticket for its own seat because I didn't want it to get broken. So I paid for a plane seat next to me. And then get this. The plane's like full. And my uh, I guess this woman was sitting in a um, she was really big, and she was sitting in an aisle seat. And I guess she was too big for the aisle because the the thing kept hitting her every time it went by, and she was upset. She's like, I want to change my seat. And they're like, the plane is full, and she's like, There's a seat right there. And they're like, Well, you'll have to go talk to him or whatever. And then she wanted to come sit in my seat, and I was like, No, it's like for my statue, and she was like, That's ridiculous. Like, what are you talking about? Move that fucking thing. I want to sit there. And then I showed her, I bought a ticket for it. She was just like, she's like flabbergasted. I'm like, look, I don't want it sitting over there away from me. You know, it's a it's a very delicate statue. Like, you could take your fingernail, it was soapstone, and go like this into the side of it, and you would cut into the soapstone. It's very, very delicate. I had it all propped up on a blanket and like seat belted. That's hilarious. Yeah, I have not seen it.

SPEAKER_02 2:06:07

If it happened nowadays, you would have been on somebody's uh viral video.

SPEAKER_01 2:06:11

Yeah, exactly. Someone would be yelling at me, get off the you get it out of the way. Just like, listen, you should have bought yourself a better seat. You get to pick what you want when you buy it. It's like, for God's sakes, you didn't have to pick an aisle. You could have picked the the other one. Hey, you're back, Colin.

SPEAKER_07 2:06:31

I think you have a question here about to wet the garden down a little bit, and uh got caught up with my son, so back.

SPEAKER_01 2:06:43

Hell yeah. That's awesome. Are you playing mini sticks or something? No, we just he's that's a Canadian pastime. We just play hockey whenever we mini sticks is like a dude. You I should send you a mini stick, dude. It's the greatest thing ever. Your son will love it. I should send you a mini stick setup. Yeah, it's like little nets, little sticks, little pew pew. Dude, it's so much fun, dude. My my son's obsessed with it. He's obsessed with it. It's mushrooms for kids.

SPEAKER_07 2:07:12

100%. No, he's you know, he's water gunning. Oh, nice, nice.

SPEAKER_01 2:07:17

Water guns have uh really uh stepped up in their evolution. You guys should sell mico guns, mica guns that you can just like drive down the fucking boulevard in your car and inoculate fucking lawns and fucking like how fun would that be? It's mushrooms, but it's fun.

SPEAKER_09 2:07:35

Just load in a liquid culture jar and then you start sell kids for growers.

SPEAKER_01 2:07:42

You heard it here on Hash Church first. Someone's gonna have this company, by the way, in less than a month.

SPEAKER_09 2:07:47

I see you have a question here about wood lovers paralysis.

SPEAKER_01 2:07:51

Yeah, someone asked, uh, they would love to hear full canopy's thoughts on wood lover paralysis.

SPEAKER_09 2:07:56

Do you have thoughts? It's definitely real. We uh I have never personally uh went through it, but we've talked to a few people that have. So wood lovers paralysis for people that don't know is uh for specifically psychedelic mushrooms that grow on wood, uh there's an experience that some people will have where you become paralyzed. So I I think it varies based on how much you've taken, but the people that I've talked to, you know, took uh specifically psilocyide cyanesscence, which is a wood lover that grows in nature. It's also known as as wavy caps, and they took, you know, like about a gram and a half or two grams, and then you know, suddenly they aren't able to move. So their arms, their legs, you know, they're able to think, but your breathing is uh you know deflated a bit. So maybe at like very high doses that could be an issue, especially if you have uh underlying issues. But it's it's definitely a real thing. I've only ever heard about it with pilocibe cyanescence, um, not to be confused with canalia cyanescence, but yeah, it's real. I don't know how frequent it is though. But it seems to only happen on wood-loving psychedelic mushrooms. Oh these ones so people get temporarily uh paralyzed. The people that I've talked to, it's just like a pretty scary experience because you're expecting a psychedelic experience, and then suddenly, you know, I I didn't talk to them about the onset of it, if it was sudden or if it is gradual. But yeah, I mean I can imagine being in a psychedelic experience, and then you can't move. And if you were having a good experience, go with it otherwise, you know, it could be fair fairly scary.

SPEAKER_01 2:10:07

The I had only ever heard it one time in my life. It was way before we knew that mushrooms were grown on wood. Uh, it was way before I had heard of wood lover's paralysis, but a guy that I knew back in Winnipeg, and this was like a this would have been like a crude story. It's like, oh, I fucking, I just figured it was like acid, man. You know, he eats these mushrooms and he ends up going to the bathroom and he turns around to come out of the bathroom. And he said he just stopped, and then he said his arms just kind of went up like this, and then he couldn't move, and he was just standing there. And I don't know if he stood there for an hour or how long it was, but it it scared the shit out of him. He said, like you could hang off his fucking arms that no one was making his arms go down or up, and it was like just a terrifying experience. And I remember just hearing about it, and this was I was young at the time, I was probably only 20 years old, just thinking, like, fuck, I do not want that experience. Like, it was like the worst possible. Like, what are you talking about? Like, don't don't do that. Although nowadays, you know that I'm older, I could potentially just uh you know, maybe go with the flow and um yeah, not be uh here's some of my mushrooms I picked last year in Stanley Park. Some cyanessins.

SPEAKER_06 2:11:26

Those are beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 2:11:27

Yeah, they're all like really nice specimens. You can see they're all cut. I cut like 99% of them out. I try not to pull them out. And uh just really lovely mushrooms, like all in all.

SPEAKER_09 2:11:42

One last thing on the wood lovers paralysis. Um, I know like some of the papers that I've read on it, they suspected that origination was the chemical component that was in it. Uh, that was causing the woodlover's paralysis. But yeah. Our toque F8 nerds has the highest origination of any cubensis that I've ever seen. And when I, you know, we have a lot of people that will give us feedback on it, and none of those people uh have talked to us about, you know, uh having wood lovers' paralysis on that. So I think it's like there's probably some other chemical in the wood that might be being, you know, maybe it's like in such small amounts that it's unmeasurable, or maybe there's some other combination that we can't see. It's glyphosate. Probably it's the glyphosate trip.

SPEAKER_01 2:12:36

So this is that purple spore I was talking about. That looks great. Those are all wavy caps, right? Yeah, that's this. This is all from a wavy cap folder that I just kind of found on my uh on my little guy here. But this is yeah, this is what they look like. I I find them, you know, they're very small, they're growing amongst the ivy, they're growing amongst the rotten leaves, and you can kind of see like true wavy caps going on here. Like this is a full, like yeah, I don't even have to question what they are. I don't have to spore print them when they look like that. I'm like pretty confident that uh I got the right ones. And uh yeah, I just love how shiny they look when I bring them home. Obviously, I clean them all very, very well um before I put them uh before I put them up. But yeah, even like the edge of this one, like this one is like perfect. That blue all around the entire cap of the mushroom. Like I'm telling you right now, like that mushroom alone by itself is a is a good experience. That that's a good experience. There's no doubt about it. And then, of course, for those of you that want to know what they look like when they're dry, they get much lighter, much more of a golden cap. You can see they don't have that same wet, dark brown kind of look to it, but uh they definitely now have that more standard, like bluing and sort of psilocybin um-esque looking mushrooms. I uh I love them. I absolutely love them. If you guys ever come here in October, November, December, uh, we can pick these mushrooms in in all sorts of public parks. In fact, we can go to uh the police station uh and we can pick them off their boulevards because they all think it's a good idea to use wood chip, in particular alder, to put under all of their boulevards. Uh they lay sod over the alder chip. And there's so much of it. I think it's because we lived in a in a temperate rainforest. And so it's it's so um it's so just wet and and moist that um, yeah, there it is, a couple more. I love these ones because they haven't quite opened yet, uh, but still clearly uh in the in the family. Anyone sees that sort of teal greenish blue look on the mushroom, and you can kind of and keep in mind, like I am very gentle with these mushrooms. Like I'm not trying to get, I'm gentle, you know, even the way I wash them all. Uh, because you do pick them out of boulevards, these particular ones. Someone was saying the mushroom will always find you earlier. I believe it was Santi. You know, it's more than that. These mushrooms grow at the entrances of trails. These mushrooms these mushrooms grow where humans are, period. That's what they do. They're looking for us as much as we're looking for them. Uh, and for whatever reason, when we find them, it's like the most exciting thing ever. I I absolutely love looking for mushrooms in nature. Like, find in fact, you want to know how I look for them now? I look for them now by driving my truck through parks slow with my head hanging out the window. And I look for things that I know are indicators of the mushrooms that I'm looking for. And I mentioned a couple earlier: rhododendrons, butterfly bush, both of which are are indicators. There's a mushroom called a honey mushroom here on the Pacific Northwest that is a very big mushroom, and you can see it easily from your car. And I cannot tell you how many patches of psychedelic mushrooms I have found from driving my truck through through a park. And people are like, What are you doing? I'm like, I'm looking for mushrooms. People will be walking by. Are the what are you doing? I'm like, oh, I'm picking these mushrooms. What kind of mushrooms are those? I'm like, the good ones. And they're like, oh wow, I heard about that. Like in British Columbia, it's lore. Picking psychedelic mushrooms is lore. It's not really super frowned upon. I wouldn't hide myself doing it. I wouldn't even stop doing it if cops went by because I'm pretty sure psychedelic mushrooms are only illegal in certain amounts in my province when they're dry. Don't quote me on this.

SPEAKER_02 2:16:58

I think Florida has something similar where they're they're legal if they were picked in nature. I think there might be a case that set the precedence, but I'm not a lawyer, so hopefully nobody quotes me on that. We can look it up.

SPEAKER_01 2:17:10

Someone's already writing, fucking Santi's full of shit. He's not a lawyer. I got arrested yesterday.

SPEAKER_06 2:17:16

You said I wasn't a lawyer.

SPEAKER_01 2:17:20

Unbelievable. No, I'm uh you should see the laws that have changed here in Canada. I don't even know what I can and can't say anymore, but uh people are going to jail for shit they say online. So crazy. See if it catches up to me.

SPEAKER_02 2:17:32

What's your cleaning process with those?

SPEAKER_01 2:17:34

Well, I put them into a strainer bowl and then I rinse them with kind of not too warm of a water, kind of just room, temperate water. Um, if I have to get, like I said, I cut 98% of them. The odd time when I cut them, there'll still be a bit of mud or grass that's sticking out of the bottom or wood chip for that matter. So I'll just make sure I kind of clean that off. And then I just really gently clean the caps. Uh, and then I dry them and I dry them on cardboard the exact same way that you saw me dry them. I always like the idea of a bit of spore being able to fall. And that way you see, if I have personally, I don't have many doubt mushrooms, but if I have a doubt one, maybe it's been grown funny or funky or different or it's been stepped on and broken. Something's just different about it. I'll put it on its own cardboard and those will all go, you know, face down. Guaranteed that spore that you saw, I only spore print when I'm in doubt of a mushroom. And that mushroom, it was pretty round, if you noticed. It didn't have the wave in the spore print the way it sometimes does. Um, and I just I honestly think that one might have actually been an Azoresin. Um, that particular one. But I just remember looking at it and going, you know what? There's there was like three or four of them. I just put them aside and I'll be like, I'll spore print these. And then whenever I spore print, I always take a picture because you really get the accurate like color of it from when I when I take a picture of it versus like in in some stupid room or whatever. I'll get my little light box out and be like, get a proper fucking picture of this spore.

SPEAKER_09 2:19:11

Um you do any microscopy to look at the spores?

SPEAKER_01 2:19:15

I've done some micro my scrop microscopes. My fuck, I can't even say it, which is ridiculous. I'm not gonna try again, but let me see if I can bring some of mine up. I have a macro lens, so I do macro photography with uh cannabis. So I always thought, well, why wouldn't I? Um I think it would probably be in here. Um macro mushrooms, maybe. I think it would be under cyaness. The problem is I'm having a hard time. Cy uh, oh, there we go. Pix that Stanley first pick of the season. Let's see if I can find any in this one. Um, because they are super trippy. And I didn't only do spores, I also did like gills, and I did like caps on the edge, and I did like it. It was actually some pretty cool photos if I can find them, but I don't know. I would think it would be under cyanesss. I have picking first of the season here, but I don't have any on here. That's a really nice one right there. Oh, I gotta share that one. I think I took this picture because of the little abort that's on the bottom of it. See the little guy? How blue that little guy is. Have you ever done a full trip of those little aborts?

SPEAKER_02 2:20:29

Natalia, those are those, those, those are yeah, one harvesting. Oh my god, what's going on with those? One of those little guys and forget, and then all of a sudden go on a walk outside, and I'm like, wow, what's going on?

SPEAKER_01 2:20:40

These leaves are so bright. I have heard the rumor that they produce their psilocybin, like early on, even as they're fairly small. We always found them to be very strong. Like, there's just no fucking doubt about it. You can even see, like, at the close-up, because I even took a close-up of this picture, it looks like a wet alien that's gonna crawl into your ear and fucking whisper sweet nothings at you for six hours straight. Maybe even yell and scream them for a couple hours. I was gonna say, I don't know about the last part, but the first couple parts, yes.

SPEAKER_07 2:21:17

I can concur, man. The the smaller, for whatever reason, the the smaller, smaller ones seem to be much um much more potent. That's for sure.

SPEAKER_02 2:21:29

Yeah, I want to find this question. What's that? It's an NIR question, right? You can get a bunch of small ones and test them compared to the bigger ones in the same flush, and then we can release the results with Bubble Man first.

SPEAKER_07 2:21:43

I've been told it's not any different, but I don't know. Maybe it's just my the psychology behind it.

SPEAKER_01 2:21:51

I wish I could find this fold. I have to have more folders. Cyons, maybe first picking. There's only one folder of cyaness in on my entire like that. Is impossible that you don't understand? It's impossible. Sort of tripping out, hoping I didn't lose some things here. Cyanessence. Cyanessence picked it Stanley. It's only two folders. Because I do have some pretty, I'll I'll have to find them and send them to you guys. I don't want to waste too much of the show here, but um, I do have some very lovely macro photographs. I thought as a macro photographer, I have the ability to take pictures that very few people might be. I when I took them, they people have caught up now, but this was years ago when I was like, fuck, I should I should start photographing some of these cyanessins that I'm picking in in the parks and whatnot. And uh lo and behold, I got some really good photos. I I'm gonna have a hard time not going and trying to find these photos, though. I really am.

SPEAKER_09 2:22:53

Maybe if we come off another time, we can show you some of the microscopy pictures we have of like spores and the mycelium and stuff. It's cool being able to look underneath and look at like clamp connections and see how these things are actually mating. And spore identification is a huge way of being able to actually identify uh the wild caughties, and the spores can look like wild.

SPEAKER_01 2:23:18

Right? Well, yeah, anytime. Fuck, if you have those now, you can show those bad boys. Um, mushroom hunting, ballar fridge. I'm finding some more here. I'm just going through this is mushroom hunting with my buddy Craig, but that was all oh, maybe that was mushroom hunting with Merlin. These are all edibles. Oh, this is a nice folder of edible mushrooms. Hell yeah. I won't show it all, but I will show just what we picked at the end of the day. Look at that bad boy. Oh, turkey tails, there's some bolettes in there, there's some goldens, there's some oh man, just like I said, just absolutely beautiful. I am gonna find these um these mushroom pictures. They maybe it's you know what, it's probably like in 2019 or something. It's probably not even on this hard drive. That's crazy. As you get older, you kind of space time. Mushroom picking and squamish. I do have mushroom picking every single October and November, though, I'm happy to say.

SPEAKER_02 2:24:34

We have to get out there with you.

SPEAKER_01 2:24:36

Yeah, I think it's uh I think it's a plan. Absolutely. Why wouldn't we? It's um the fact that you can do it is kind of one of the reasons that makes me feel like I should do it. Do you know what I mean? And there's all sorts of times to go out, like it's not just one time for psychedelic ones. It's kind of October, November, December, uh, when those are popping. But um, I at this point get as excited uh when I when I find a really nice, tasty edible or you know, something like a Rishi or a conch that I can like, man, this is just awesome. Absolutely love it. Do you usually cook them yourself? Uh, you know, I've got friends that are much better at it than me. My wife will do it sometimes, but we have friends um that live down the street. But funny enough, I got into mushroom picking and hunting, but he's taken it to a next level. Uh, and they came over last time and made the soup. They made this beautiful chanterelle soup with like a kilo of chanterelles in it. It was so thick, so delicious, and just whatever spices and everything they use. He's really smart not to use like garlic or onions or anything that's got that strong file, like that's gonna overtake because the mushroom, as as delicious as it is, it's a bit of a subtle deliciousness, you know, especially the chanterelles. You don't want to like um overpower them with a bunch of other flavor profiles. You want to kind of pull that forest flavor out of out of the mushroom. And so he has he has much better knowledge of doing that than um than I. And that's not Merlin, actually, Bingo Lombardi, although Merlin is another one of my friends that I will let cook with the mushrooms. But this friend was Sean, um, who's been uh picking mushrooms with me for my goodness, almost 30 years now, I would say. Time for a little candy fumes again. I see if we can get in there. Can't really see, but these black jars make it damn hard to see the quality of the rosin, let me tell you. And if you're wondering why I have like uh pink and blue nails, I was making crystals with my son the other day, and I accidentally touched the crystal seeds, and these fucking things are like the most concentrated color thing you've ever imagined. They just got all over my hands. I couldn't get it off, like it was all over my hands for multiple days. Anyway, we got some pretty awesome crystals growing right now. So I'm gonna go check on those here in a little bit, and then uh probably take my son and go for a wicked electric skateboard later on today in squamish. So in the forest, because I got the uh four-wheel drive uh backcountry skateboard, uh electric skateboard with the big big wheel. So we'll go into the forest, me and my boy, and we'll see if we can't find some uh some mushies to say hi to. I just like saying hi to them. Another one we have that grows here that is beautiful is Amanita muscaria. And they grow, dude. I'm telling you, I could bring you to places where you could see a hundred of them growing all next to one another. It is the most shockingly fucking beautiful uh experience. I'm telling you, it's so beautiful. Just by the mere mention of it, my friend Etienne will just appear. He'll just appear. He heard it, he's here, there he is. Is he smoking a joint? I don't know. Probably. Look at that, called it. Beautiful timing. Welcome, Etienne. I'm not sure if you guys know Etienne, but Etienne is fucking legendary, dude. He's doing awesome things for cannabis that for for the last 35 years, started the Berkeley Patients group, is like working on the uh at the United Nations to like make sure people don't get executed for cannabis, like high-level shit that makes us all look like peons. We bow, we bow, Etienne. I'm just busting your balls. Etienne's awesome. And so are Santi and Spoon, who are here from Full Canopy and Michael Bag, and we're talking about mushrooms today, dude. We've been talking about guys. Yeah, I mean, I know you do, man. So these guys are in Colorado. It's pretty legal for them to be doing it, and they're uh they're just doing it in a real conscious, even an awesome foundation. You know, the foundation, Etienne, you always love to hear the foundation from cannabis people who are deep into it when they're like, oh well, I I I started as a patient. Well, so too, it seems, would it be the case with Spoon, who sort of worked on these mushrooms to work through, you know, depression and fucking what I call demonic possession, demonic intelligence, negative thoughts, cyclical rumination, all that bullshit that we've all, you know, many people in the world suffer from today, and many people have experienced. So they shared their story this morning, talking about you know, growing all these different strains of mushrooms and kind of where they're coming from to get to where they are. Of course, they're also partners with Ruben uh in Barcelona, who does the Valenveras NIR testing unit. So just one big happy family here on Hash Church enjoying the day. Got a bit of penis envy going then, huh? Uh I do. They have a lot of penis envy going. I'm not gonna lie. That's not an insult. They've also got the old dirty room people. They've got the old dirty penis envy, not just like that that, you know, that's their company.

SPEAKER_10 2:29:58

That's great.

SPEAKER_01 2:29:58

That's great. Yeah, Tian has to uh, you know, make the the low not as not as bad as the David Allen joke, eh? The Dr. David Allen joke, remember?

SPEAKER_10 2:30:07

Right, right. Yeah, my my father was a blind lawyer, so you know, I learned to play with words a lot as a kid. So, you know, it's one of those things. But uh no, I mean, mushrooms are, I mean, gosh, I mean, that's uh we have uh one of our guys in our Veterans Action Council group has started the mycological group of Louisiana um because it's legal in Louisiana to grow psychedelics for decorative purposes. Yes, for decorative purposes. It's absolutely fun fact. So, yeah, I know, right? So he teaches people, uh he he Louisiana? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The Louisiana Mycologic or the Acadiana Mycological Society. Uh Tony Landry, he's a badass. We love him. And um, yeah, he has been going, uh volunteering at libraries, teaching people how to, you know, he he preps bags and everything for them, and he teaches everybody how to grow regular mushrooms as well as teaches you how to grow psychedelic mushrooms. And um I think he does decorating classes too, so you can show your art, etc. So, yes, it's I think it's one of the few states that actually has, I think maybe the only state that has that um as a uh legal to grow for decorative purposes only. So if there's any others like that, Santi, or y'all you guys are aware of, please, you know, make me aware.

SPEAKER_01 2:31:32

But dude, you guys should get in touch with this guy. We should put these two together because maybe they can help uh him with some decorative uh new strains.

SPEAKER_10 2:31:40

Absolutely. Happy to put you guys in touch with him. No, he's been leading the charge for medical cannabis in Louisiana. I'm originally from Louisiana, that's how I have the funny name. However, I don't do activism there because I'd get myself killed there, because it's um Louisiana. It's dangerous to be different. As as I grew up in the area where, you know, it's different. Kill it.

SPEAKER_01 2:32:02

Um is that why you're so different, Etienne?

SPEAKER_10 2:32:07

Uh well, I allow not when I was younger, I was very much or very much a conformist, but as I expanded and escaped Louisiana, I definitely felt more into my shoes. But psychedelics and all those things also help you uh shed those uh fears and egos of the past so you can be more accepting of self, which is something I think we could all benefit from. And being a combat veteran myself, um I work with other veterans, and part of the VAC is working on natural plant medicines because we have found cannabis to be an excellent palliative. However, when we want to go deep dive and deal with the things that we want to deal with, psychedelics are the key and mushrooms are a major part. I would not be who I am or as healed as I am if it had not been for psychedelics. So that sacrament is very sacred to us as we have helped others. And I've watched even my stepdad who was adopted by the Comanche, and in his late 80s, he did a full peyote ceremony, you know, sweat lodge, you know, to you know, understand the um what he was experiencing. But you know, he was able to accept it through the Native American spirituality, whereas most people probably won't have that type of experience. You'll find it along the lines of mushrooms or LSD, but I guess more mushrooms and LSD because LSD ain't as prevalent as mushrooms are or as easy to produce. However, you know, people have and want access to quality, you know, product here in the Bay Area. I'm in Bayer, California. People have extracted acilocybin and made chocolates and other things from them. So the the pushing of the boundaries. I know some guys that do that. Right. It is given access to, I mean, an untold amount. I didn't realize it until my employees gave me some bars for my birthday one year. It was like, oh wow, that's that's pretty amazing. And then, you know, because uh, you know, if you've done mushrooms, I have a kind of a tummy for it, you know. Uh, you know, it's kind of a rough thing. And then my other thing is so many people made chamomile tea versions of the chamel. Yum tea. I can't drink chamomile tea without getting the tingles, you know what I'm saying? Because it's just I've only had that, you know. And then one time, and I don't do this, people. I made the mistake. A friend of mine's I had a fever and a cold, and he's like, Oh, you should take mushrooms, it'll make you feel better. Don't. If you want to stare death in the face for a few hours and try to pull yourself back from that void, I do not recommend that's what I want. While very uh in in the throes of it.

SPEAKER_01 2:34:59

That's exactly what I'm looking for.

SPEAKER_10 2:35:00

Would not recommend that. I don't know, but you guys, you know, if you've ever done that, but I have and I I would never do that again and would caution others to not do that. It it's uh it puts you in a special place that I'm not sure many people are prepared for.

SPEAKER_01 2:35:15

Yeah, there's definitely a preparation involved in having uh a dose of mushrooms that's a little more powerful than one is expecting. That's why set and setting is so important. That's why, you know what, microdoses might be for concerts and macrodoses might be for you know in a safe place with a safe group of people, um, you know, looking out for you as as much as uh you would look out for you to be.

SPEAKER_10 2:35:41

People are always like, oh, a dose on mushrooms, but I want to get into dosing, such as subjective. I have a bunch of mushrooms that I have that I'm probably gonna blend together and then put into capsules. Um, you know, it's too much.

SPEAKER_02 2:35:54

Likely super, I mean, a lot of variables, right? It is subjective, it is also strain dependent. Uh we talk about dosing in terms of weight of the dried fruit still, not in milligrams per gram. But uh here we've tried out a couple different varieties. We uh first of all, when you do grind it and pulverize it, some varieties are more volume than others. So what you can fit in the capsule may or may not be the same, right? Small variants, but it might be a hundred milligrams to 150 milligrams, depending on the variety you're putting in there, just because of the volume of the powder. But yeah, there's some that are perceptual. People, I think trying to say right without all those unnecessary details to answer the question, let's say, right? If you're talking about just simple cubensis, so important because there's others that might be five times stronger. But if we're talking about cubensis that might sit within 0.5 to 1.5%, then a microdose normally would be around 100 milligrams. If we want to answer it in a better way, maybe because it is subjective and dependent on the strain, then I would define a microdose as subperceptual, something that you don't feel but is still working behind the scenes. Then some people like the microdose that they do feel it a little bit because they're like, oh, it's there.

SPEAKER_01 2:37:22

Yeah, they're like, I took half a gram. I'm like, that's not a microdose, dude. Like right, it's fine. Just don't be telling people you took a microdose and then offered them that same microdose. Because to me, a microdose is truly even below 0.1. To me, to me, a microdose is like 0.05. It's like I think we should say I took a sub person, subperceptual dose, yeah, or I took a perceptual dose, right?

SPEAKER_02 2:37:46

Because then you could say microdose, museum dose. There's so many different terms for it. But it's like I took a subperceptual dose, cool. At the end of the day, I felt great, I was in a good mood, I didn't have to drink a second cup of coffee, et cetera, et cetera, versus saying I took a perceptual dose, and then XYZ were the results. Then we can get into well, you know, how much weight or milligrams per gram or whatever. Sure. But yeah, micro to me means sub-receptual.

SPEAKER_01 2:38:14

Yeah, you got to know what's in it first of all, what kind of mushroom it is. And this is the uh this will probably be maybe, maybe not, um, one of the obstacles mushrooms have kind of going forward, that there are that people need to understand there are very there are a lot of different kinds, and potency can literally be 5x, like Santi just mentioned, five times stronger than one. Now, here's an even here's an even scarier one, which we laughed about earlier. When Santi says about 100 to 150 milligrams, he's talking about dried powder, mushroom powder. He's not talking about extract. Some people, I know some of them, are extracting this shit and then plugging it into gummies or chocolate or whatever. And at that point, you know what is a microdose with that, right?

SPEAKER_02 2:39:04

It's hard, right? You you you have to do the math on the 1%, right? So, like that one milligram. And depending on potency too, right? Well, at that point, we're talking about the active ingredients. So if you're talking about one milligram of active ingredients, then you're doing a math based on an average of one percent. So then you're saying, oh, okay, so then in fruit uh weight, this is equivalent to a hundred milligrams, right? Because if you're talking about a one percent mushroom, right, it's a hundred X. So then the five milligrams per gram become five hundred milligrams, right? Right, so now you're in a half a gram dose, which is completely different than a hundred milligram dose, more than perceptual, right? Like obviously it would be perceptual. I would say perceptual for most people might start in the 150 to 300 milligrams of dried fruit weight, or the 1.5 to 3 milligrams of active ingredient. But it is challenging, right? If you if you do share products with people, it's so confusing because they don't even understand when you're talking about dried mushroom weight when it comes to microdosing, which is such a new conversation, right? You still see people that you're like, oh, mushrooms, and they're like, oh no, I had a bad experience. One does that. Well, you like the money weigh them out. Yeah. You ate whatever fit in your hand, and and then you didn't have the best experience. But regardless, right? Microdosing is so new that we're still trying to figure out what is the microdosing um correct dose or regimen.

SPEAKER_01 2:40:46

Well, hopefully, people will be educated. You know, one of the things, like I said, my worry is that it gets kind of taken by the healers. For me, mushrooms have always, especially, I mean, really, both micro and macro, macro, especially. I need to be in nature. I need to be in nature. I like to have a focal point of a fire burning, you know. I'll just be on the outskirts of a fire, be in the forest, be on the forest floor, you know, just have it be as natural as possible. It's not saying that when I haven't, I have experienced macro doses where I've ended up, you know, in my vehicle, I've ended up at a dairy queen, I've ended up like at an apartment, just all these terrible experiences that we're like, this is just like, I remember my friend was like, no, we have to get ice cream. And we all got ice cream, my wife, him, and myself, and none of us even took a lick of it. We walked outside and threw it in the garbage can. It looked like styrofoam on a cup. It was the most insane fucking thing ever. I looked at it and it was like the anti-nature. And we ended up going and listening to albums. I, you know, you pull that off when you're younger. As I'm older now, I'd just much rather be out in a forest next to a fire, you know, have a safe environment. You know, I'm not even opposed to someone playing a drum or playing, like I probably won't put on music because I don't want to have to deal with electronics. But if someone had a flute or an instrument that was like just trippy and ethereal, I would be able to get into that immediately, no matter how kind of high I was, as long as it was good.

SPEAKER_02 2:42:20

To mention quick on the risk you said, right? Of uh like these facilitators taking over, I think there's equal risk when you have products that are positioned as mushroom products which aren't, right? And they might be synthetic tryptomines that are still fun, but just tell people what it is and and then dose it responsibly. So going back to just self-regulating, right? If things are done ethically, I don't think we really need the the regulations as long as we can self-regulate. But as humans, we probably can't do that.

SPEAKER_10 2:42:53

Yeah, that's the thing. That's we we have found that we saw with uh multidisciplinary association for psychedelic studies, we saw where um facilitators took advantage, sexual advantage of people who were trying to heal from sexual trauma, as much as that is, as well as I've heard of a husband and wife couple then taking advantage sexually of people as well in those situations because they become so vulnerable in those situations that I'm afraid that there needs to be rules as much as I wish there weren't. However, the human nature and the work that my veterans and others have found uh because we looked into spiritual guides to help, because there was not a lot of good information unless you're you're and there's so much information on the internet that it's it can confuse you very quickly. So we had a bunch of veterans reaching out looking for proper guides, and then finding this situation um of sexual abuse being quite rampant uh behind the scenes, at least in the MDMA therapy and the uh some of the other psychedelic therapies. So I'm just I'm not trying to scare anybody as much as caution against something that we have seen become a real problem, unfortunately, within the psychedelic community, uh, because it's that about that integrity thing about doing things right and uh supervision through that. So that leads us to a whole bunch of ethical questions, as well as the need for guides and guidelines, and especially for you know, putting um bumpers on the road, so to say, so that people can have a safe experience without that. I think that's why Marcus and others and I feel comfortable going to nature because you won't be interluded. You're choosing who you're going to have this experience with and with people you trust. And these are things that I think we've learned over time by having assholes jump in or be around and fuck up the whole situation for everybody. We're like, yeah, we're not doing that again, you know, such as Marcus, you're choosing to not have music or not, you know, because then you wouldn't have to deal with the electronics or not. That's something through experiences that you found or liked or disliked. Whereas I know people who will take a DJ with them. And I mean, there used to be these moonlight, uh, there used to be the um equinox things out in Santa Cruz where people would literally go out and trip and listen to, you know, trance music out in the desert on a very different experience from a veteran like facing his demons on a macro dose of they're just different.

SPEAKER_01 2:45:39

And and I spoke about it earlier, you know, and and I never even thought of veterans, but it fits in perfect for veterans, which is when I said, you know, first of all, one person should never be in charge of a trip where you're now in a position to take advantage of a vulnerable person. There should be a group of people, and particularly you're gonna want a group of people when it's a veteran who's been trained, who can who's a you know, a trained fucking killer, basically, who's trying to face these demons and get these demons out. Well, you're gonna be there with them. You know what I mean? Like you want to make sure you have the ability, if need be, to make sure that he can't get out of control. Because that, you know, these are very, very this is this is probably the highest level of serious tripping that you control.

SPEAKER_10 2:46:25

Can be lost when you're in touch with these demons 100%. So this is why we definitely recommend somebody who's going through trauma, and we're happy to see that psychologists are being trained. Um, and you need um back in the day, you actually had a guide. Even in Native American communities, they all have a guide who has experience in these psychedelics to guide someone through that.

SPEAKER_02 2:46:51

So I think that's the pros and cons of the regulations and training psychiatrists is that a lot of the psychiatrists have to unlearn because as psychiatrists they have to be involved. Whereas with this, you have to let the natural medicine be the guide and not be as involved. But I think nefarious actors are gonna exist within or outside of regulations. And you know, ultimately, I think the most important thing going back to the community, right? Like before going to look for somebody outside of your circle or community, this is something new that is just now being normalized. So maybe there is somebody in your community that has experience that just does doesn't openly talk about it because they're also a lawyer or a teacher or a professional, right?

SPEAKER_10 2:47:35

And so how do you help people shift through because then they think, oh, I need to go find a shaman? And as you know, there are shamans out there, there's really good ones, and there's also some shady motherfuckers out there ripping people off. So, how do you how do you help people find a guide if they really want one in their area?

SPEAKER_02 2:47:56

It's difficult, but I mean, the first thing I would say is also look within your community. I'd say think of somebody that is guiding these experiences that are life-changing experiences to people. It is difficult to not build up an ego when someone turns around and says, You changed my life, you save my life, XYZ, right? So someone mentioned it recently, it wasn't me, but I'll can kind of paraphrase it's like I'm not a facilitator, by the way, right? Like I think that I have a lot of respect for people that can do this, I cannot. So then it's important for me to align with people who can to complete the full circle of you know responsible and safe consumption. But it's people who have that experience, someone tells them you change my life or save my life. They can talk about it, but not absorb it, right? Because if you don't talk about it, then you're trying to ignore it, but it might be in the subconscious and then starting to take over and you're not openly talking about it, versus somebody who could say, I'll accept that, like it's it, but at the at the end of the day, like it wasn't me, right? Like I just introduced you to an experience or a substance where you were able to look within yourself, et cetera, et cetera. But those would be the two things. Like, don't look for someone who's gonna facilitate, call it whatever you want to call it, who is somebody who's like, Oh, I am gonna do XYZ, I am gonna save you, I, I, I, because in reality, it's not them you're looking for, right? You're just looking to have a relationship with a natural medicine that they happen to have a better relationship with and are gonna facilitate that introduction. It's not them, that person that is gonna change you or save you or even shift your perspective.

SPEAKER_04 2:49:41

Well said, Santi. Well said.

SPEAKER_10 2:49:45

Well, it's a real thing because uh people just found. I mean, we had somebody not too long ago say, hey, I was just given some mushrooms, I've never done them before. What do I do? I don't want to I'm afraid when I go in, I'm gonna confront something and I want to do it right. How do I do that?

SPEAKER_02 2:50:07

Once once more, I am not a facilitator, but I would say I have the same question when I go in and same level of respect, right? Like I look at mushroom, my family went out of town uh a couple months ago, and I more than a couple months ago, but I I was looking at these mushrooms I was gonna take because I would have finally had the space and time. I have two young kids, etc. And I looked for at the mushrooms for three days straight before I finally consumed them. And I'm very familiar with the space that I'm gonna enter, but I still have that level of respect, right? So I mean, again, I hopefully everybody can look within their community and just like they found that friend that might have introduced them to cannabis and did it responsibly, you know, without giving them a bong hit and not pulling the bowl and letting them pass out afterwards, et cetera, right? Like, or giving them that hot dab just so that everybody around can laugh. Like there's responsible ways to introduce you to cannabis and irresponsible ways, just with mushrooms, there's a bigger consequence, right? They're not gonna just pass out from the hot dab, they're gonna have a traumatic experience. So they have to go to look for responsible.

SPEAKER_10 2:51:11

Yeah, what about those that don't have a community? Okay, that were gifted something and they don't. That's uh another thing that people find is that oh, I've been gifted something. I don't know anybody who does because they're from the straight world.

SPEAKER_03 2:51:26

So start low and slow.

SPEAKER_10 2:51:29

Well, yes, always always slow. But how would you guide somebody in that direction? Because I know there's probably some people who are watching that are bound or or homebound and curious.

SPEAKER_02 2:51:41

I I mean, sadly, right now I don't have an organization top of mind that I would say, you know, go on www.xyz. I would definitely say, luckily, we're at a scale in our life and business where I can say reach out to us directly and we will try to put you in in contact. Grateful to Marcus for having a platform like this where we can talk about it and share in our information, and also states like Colorado, where there are professional psychiatrists or newfound uh therapists that are more openly speaking about what they do. And so by going to local events here, we've been able to connect with some of those people. They may or may not have a website, they might just be sharing their signal or phone number, but at least through a word-of-mouth perspective, we could build a responsible ethical community where you can connect, you know, whether it be the grower to the person so that they could source the natural medicine, and then the therapist also to the person so that they could provide the therapy to prepare and maybe integrate, even if they can't be there with you in person to facilitate, right? So, I mean, just going somewhat old school to how it used to happen, maybe more ceremonially in person, but now with the tools, we can decentralize that a little bit and still help prepare, whether it be one-on-one, right? But like in ethical community and help integrate after you have the experience, even if you didn't go to that person in person. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:53:17

A lot of people talking about uh their stomach hurting and the the stomach issue that they get from psilocybin mushrooms. You know, one of my old mentors, he was not into putting into chocolate. He was like, no, you gotta face it, you gotta face it right away. Most of it's psychological. Um, it's you know, it's more ego fear of ego death or just getting it's, you know, and then and then a big part of it was diet. He was like, you should see what some of these people are eating like six hours before they're doing their trips, and they have no idea like what's in their system. Like they just ate like three McDonald's cheeseburgers and they're wondering why their fucking stomach hurts. It's like, I know with ayahuasca, there are certain things you absolutely have to avoid, like nuts. And I remember one time where my buddy had eaten a lot of peanuts and then did ayahuasca and basically, you know, spent like 11 hours just crashing. Like he could not believe the pain. It's beyond what people are talking about with the mushrooms. But for me, I always either ate the mushrooms raw or I'd make a tea and uh just face whatever it is, get past that discomfort, because that discomfort is just your body, in my opinion. You know, for some people, it might be well beyond that. I'm not saying that there's not other cases, but for a lot of cases, because I saw a lot of people, oh, it's upsetting my tummy. It's like I think your nervousness is upsetting your tummy, like more than anything, because people would be genuinely nervous back in the day. It was, you know, there was a certain group of us that would just eat the five grams, and then there were other people that were just so cautious about eating five grams, kind of the same way they were cautious on their skateboard. So they broke a lot less bones than us.

SPEAKER_09 2:54:56

I think it's important to uh like going back to like therapy and everything, right? Like I can talk about kind of like what I did before my seven gram experiences, which I thought was very helpful and I hadn't done before. But like when you're like there's there's multiple different ways to take it, right? Like whether it's a chocolate bar, the raw mushroom, you're doing like a lemon tech or something, you know, and like before my experiences that were really beneficial to me, I set an intention. And for the week beforehand, I took at least 30 minutes to think on that intention. And for me, it was just exploring my trauma and coming to grips with it and trying to like heal my circular thoughts. So by preparing my mind the week beforehand with intention and actually sitting down, you know, maybe like reading some good quotes that I felt applied to my situation, it was able to then, when I got into the experience, help me point me in a direction rather. Other than just kind of be like floating around in the ether. So like while I was, you know, like still floating around in space or whatever, I still knew the direction I wanted to head, which was very helpful because sometimes you're in the experience and things are just coming at you. And if you don't have like proper, uh, you know, like a proper direction, sometimes you can get caught up in those thoughts. And, you know, they might be good, they might be bad, but it might just be not the direction you want to head uh you want to head in. And I think as far as like, you know, taking it, mushrooms are made of chitins, which can cause intestinal distress. Uh, we're also talking about chemicals that you know are you're digesting, and then that's sending signals to your brain. So, you know, it could be the chemicals, it could be the you kind of have a chitin intolerance, it could be a multitude of other things, maybe you have anxiety before the experience. But I think what we were talking about before, low and slow is good. Like if you're easing into it, maybe you're somewhere where you're not comfortable uh, you know, talking to people about it or whatever. It's the kind of thing where like a quarter of a gram can be like where you start to feel it. Then when you get up to a half a gram, you feel a little bit more. But that actual psychedelic experience normally doesn't occur until you're around at least two grams. You know, you might feel weird or a little bit funky below two grams of cubes specifically. But when you get above that two gram experience uh amount is normally when you start getting into the weirdness of the psychedelic experience, you're getting some visuals. And you know, if you're taking the raw mushroom, you might have waves, you know, you might be in it for a minute, and then you come out, you know, you get a glass of water, you think about some stuff, and then you go back into the experience. So the waviness probably has a lot to do with your digestion. So if you grind it up or you do a lemon tech where you take your powder, you put it in lemon juice that dephosphoridalizes it from psilocybin into silosin, which your body then uptakes so that your body doesn't have to do that process of breaking the psilocybin down into the psilocin. And that's how I prefer to take it, because you know, if I take a raw mushroom, the experience will come on in like 45 minutes to an hour. Whereas if I grind it up into a powder and then I put it into a lemon juice and then I drink that, I will get electricity in my veins within five minutes, and I'll be in the experience within 15. So then the waves are a little bit less, and you're more in the experience rather than being able to come in and come out, which each person is gonna, you know, be different in what type of experience they like. But lemon tech for me is my my preferred, just because it hits you, you know, like a truck very quickly, and then you really get into the deep end and explore uh you know whatever it is you were setting your intention for.

SPEAKER_04 2:59:19

Hallelujah.

SPEAKER_01 2:59:21

Let's do it. A little lemon tech for the Hattie.

SPEAKER_10 2:59:30

My friend in Louisiana is available. Do you mind if I have him join us? I'm I'm not against him coming on at all. I'm gonna send him the link. One second.

SPEAKER_03 2:59:39

Tony Landry is his name.

SPEAKER_01 2:59:42

Should extend our mushroom conversation. I was yeah, I'm always down for more folks. More folks. Hopefully I'll be in Colorado again soon and I'll get to come hang out with uh you guys, Santee.

SPEAKER_02 2:59:57

Please do, bro. I know how I know you have a beautiful place downtown, but if you want to go a little west, you got a home here too.

SPEAKER_01 3:00:06

Well, it's so funny because I'm such not a city guy, but that place is insane, dude.

SPEAKER_02 3:00:12

I I'm the same way, and I lived somewhere in Boston downtown for a little bit that had a rooftop and it was like a little escape from the concrete jungle, and that was enough to say, okay, this is good. But so yeah, that that place reminds me of like it makes you feel you're not downtown.

SPEAKER_01 3:00:30

Dude, absolutely. They sent me um oh, who sent me that? I think it was Ian sent me Shugi.

SPEAKER_04 3:00:40

Oh, there we go. Ruben just woke up, he's just coming to uh fruition. Let's see if he uh they're still going, brother.

SPEAKER_01 3:00:49

My son loves how Ruben says burgers, burgers. The word burgers, he because one day he's he was waiting for me at this restaurant. I'm like, what are you doing? He's like, Oh, we are here eating salmon burgers, and my son heard him say that and was like to this day, he's like, last time I talked to Ruben, I said, Hey, would you mind saying burgers? My son's here, and he's like, Oh, yes, I love the salmon burger. And my son's just like, yeah, dude, loves it, thinks it's so cool. Maybe he'll come on. We'll see, we'll see. That's good. Pushing some uh last little life into hash church. I was almost gonna cut it at three hours today. I was like, we have talked a lot, but uh we probably haven't covered every single thing for sure.

SPEAKER_02 3:01:36

No, I was gonna ask you. Go ahead. Uh how uh I've seen enough to you know, like see um to know hash church, etc. But how what's your average time? I know some are shorter, some are longer, et cetera.

SPEAKER_01 3:01:50

Usually four hours. We usually do. Yeah, we usually do four hours because we get pretty deep into it.

SPEAKER_04 3:01:58

I love it. You know, gotta get deep into it, gotta have that conversation. People love it too. There's you know, there's 1,500 people have already watched it.

SPEAKER_09 3:02:07

Crazy. I can show some uh stuff some pictures of some of the stuff that we've been working on. Hell yeah. Show it on my phone here, be a little bit of a boomer, but uh oh god as well as it should. Um yeah, this one is like it's it's send anything to me and I'll just share it for you.

SPEAKER_01 3:02:27

We can we can you can yeah, we can share the screen and you can share it to me. Do you want to maybe give them my messenger? Here I'll give you my messenger number right here.

SPEAKER_09 3:02:36

No, because WhatsApp sucks for pulling pictures out of why don't we just go to the fullcanopy.co and we can show some of the pictures from our color.

SPEAKER_01 3:02:45

This is because this is my worry. The last time we opened up a web page like that, and we showed just I we got the whole episode of Hash Church taken down. It's funny because I had your website open earlier and I was like, oh, I'll just share this. And then I was like, wait a minute. No, I think pictures are better. But if you send me pictures via the to the number I just sent you, um, which is in the chat here on the Zoom, so you might have to go to the bottom and click the chat button that's near Etienne's shoulder for me. Maybe it's someone else that's at the bottom for you. But uh yeah, I can uh I can share them very quickly um right from the computer. Oh snappa. I smoked those two big joints that I was given, by the way, uh last week. I think I showed those. They were awesome, but they were so tasty all the way to the end. There really is something to be said for uh, you know, just perfectly grown organic cannabis with half a gram, two grams of it, with half a gram of rosin, just like right down the middle. The doink of doink's, if you will. I have not smoked a joint that big in a very long time. Didn't think I could get through it, thought it would make my throat harsh. I was wrong on all accounts. I did get through it twice, and it did not hurt my throat at all. And those glass filters that have the like spinning holes that go through it, that is a very cool tech as well. Definitely cooled to smoke down in a big way. The whole joint to the by yourself? No, I shared it with one other person each time. But still, it's a two and a half gram joint. It's pretty big joint to share with one other person or whatever. But for for me, because I don't even smoke joints barely at all. Um, that was my first big two joints that I've smoked. Look at my weed situation. Here is kind of uh on the low, low. You know who gets me my weed? My daughter. My daughter gets me my weed. She's my amazing.

SPEAKER_08 3:04:45

Does she have a grower friend? She's my plug.

SPEAKER_01 3:04:47

No, she works at one of the main dispensaries. So whenever she sees like a good company sample come up, she'll she'll she'll get out, she'll grab it for me. And so it's like, and they're friends of mine that grow the weed. It's like it's all people I know from the Kootenis and like people that were from the legacy market that are now in the legal market that grow really nice weed. I was talking to one of them the other day, Che from Rosebud Gardens, another organic uh farmer.

SPEAKER_02 3:05:14

What's it like? They're craft growers in the licensed space.

SPEAKER_01 3:05:18

Yeah, we have a ton of craft uh growers in the licensed space. Absolutely. We have, you know, we have when legalization first comes, big companies will throw money down and you'll get these MSOs, right? That you guys call MSOs multi-state, but here they're just these monster companies. Um, perfect. Those are coming in. I'll be able to open them here in a second. In fact, I think what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna drag them all into a folder called Oh, welcome, by the way, Tony.

SPEAKER_10 3:05:45

Hey, I want to introduce everybody. This is Tony Landry. Tony's a Navy veteran, he lives in Louisiana. He has been single-handedly leading the fight for medical marijuana in the state of Louisiana. And due to the lack of help that he's gotten, he has pivoted to uh uh mushrooms. And uh, I think the Acadiana Michael, you introduce yourself and your organization and what you do, Tony.

SPEAKER_00 3:06:11

Yes, uh thank you, ATN, and and hey, hi everyone. Great to to meet you. My uh my group's just a community, like like community garden group, but we do Mico. Um I've got a flow hood, you know, and uh bring it to the library every two weeks, and we teach people how to grow mushrooms. Some of the members have been going to the meetings for a while, and they'll bring in their projects that they're growing at home, and and uh a lot of times just someone with absolutely no experience, and we teach them how to to uh inoculate a bag of grain, say like this, and uh turn it into a a bag of myceliated grain.

SPEAKER_04 3:06:54

Hell yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:06:55

By injecting it with some liquid cultures, floors. And then for the workshop, I'm having a workshop, I'm giving away 25 free uh just uh two cup cups of uh two solo cups of of wood pellets, hardwood pellets, and I'm uh pasteurize it the night before and bring them, bring 25 bags of of uh substrate and and colonized grain and show them how to uh because put you know, putting the spores in is not a big scientific thing. You can do that on the tabletop with some alcohol, 75, 70% alcohol, just spraying the ejection port and putting the uh the liquid culture into the bag. But it's the transfer, and you know, if we just did that at a workshop and sent them home, then they wouldn't know what to do with it. But so we're gonna do the transfer at the workshop, and then they they can you know go home and and and have the mushrooms fruit at home. But we know we work off of volunteers and uh donations basically. I've I've invested a little money in a in a big uh pressure cooker, the all-american uh it's like a $700 pot, you know, $941 uh pot. And uh I started with a a pot I bought at a garage sale for $10. It was a 1942 uh magic seal pot, and uh went about a year with that. And finally I was like, yeah, if when we're gonna do something, we need to go ahead and invest. And uh we had Maggie's mushroom out of Baton Rouge followed me online and and uh saw the work we were doing. We were working in steel air boxes, so he said, I got a uh two by two foot by four foot flow hood and I want to give it to you. So I was like, What? I'd been looking kind of manifesting a flow hood watching online in the marketplace, and when he said that, I was like, man, I'm amazed. And so it really uh it makes it uh much less contamination risk, you know, to have the the right equipment. So that's where we're at now. We got the right equipment and just building community and and uh they the meetings are great that you'll see people conversating that never met each other and just off to the side talking and a lot of uh a lot of community building.

SPEAKER_01 3:09:12

Well, I I suggested that Ch uh uh help uh introduce you to both Spoon and Santi, who are my friends that are on the show today, and they have a company called Full Canopy and Mycobag, and they're doing uh very much the same thing. These are actually some of their some of their mushroom pictures that Spoon just sent me that I'm uh sharing. I got I got to be there actually when a couple of these bags got opened, and it was uh yeah, it was pretty awesome. So yeah, I just I always thought there's always synergies with mushroom people. And my goodness, you're in Louisiana, like that's the wildest place to be promoting psychedelic mushrooms. I just all I know about Louisiana is they like they used to give out like 10-year jail sentences to cannabis people, like they were changing socks.

SPEAKER_00 3:09:55

Yeah, yeah. Well, we're we're still like that, Bubble Man, because we just had a law, we just passed a law this session that uh is gonna send someone to jail for a year if they caught smoking or vaping cannabis within a third of a mile, 2,000 feet of a school. That's our school zone. Like Arizona is 300-foot school zone. Over here is 2,000 foot, so it's gonna encompass a lot of the cities and stuff. So I'm I'm thinking tourists are gonna come in and not realize it and um smoke and then get hemmed up with a a year in Angola.

SPEAKER_01 3:10:31

Holy Christ! So obviously, the people of Louisiana need psychedelic mushrooms.

SPEAKER_10 3:10:37

Yes. Well, they're legal. Tell them about the law, uh, Tony, there in Louisiana.

SPEAKER_00 3:10:42

Yeah, we we have this quirky uh lucigenic plant law that was enacted in 2005 by um uh representative strain. Uh I think I'm saying that right. Yeah, he's our he's our commissioner of agriculture right now, but he was the representative back then, and and they had an incident where someone took some some angel trumpet, and they he he said it in in the committee, they were trying to, they thought their arm was a po-boy, which is a sandwich in Louisiana made with sauce, and they were biting their arm. So he made this law. He listed about 35 eugenic plants, and he said that they were illegal to process and the pills and teas and and potions and sell them. But if you was growing them for decorative and aesthetic landscaping purposes, then it's okay. And psilopy mushrooms is listed on there. So ayahuasca's on there, ibogaine. It's a long list of um you know plants that some people wouldn't think that were psychedelic. They were they are in um nurseries and they sell them for flower beds, but they have some properties in them, but they're listed on there. But it's okay to grow them for decorative purposes. So we call psilosopy mushrooms decorative mushrooms in Louisiana. That's what we say when we decorate. I think I call them that too. Yeah, they decorative mushrooms. They're not gonna be able to do that. They have to catch you with a bunch in your mouth for them to be illegal, is that yeah, that's pretty much. I tell everybody you can grow them to look at them, just toss them when toss them, just leave your mouth open when you get rid of when you get done looking at them.

SPEAKER_01 3:12:21

Oh my goodness, that is incredible. That is an absolute bonkers. I was asking these guys earlier how many other kind of states have legal mushrooms. I mean, I guess not legal for you, but decorative is certainly a vector for a foot in the door, to say the least. That reminds me of when Switzerland was like, Oh, you can grow cannabis, you just have to put it into like little cotton sacks and sell it as an aromatherapy bag. And then you can sell the seeds in Europe, right?

SPEAKER_02 3:12:48

Collectibles, I mean seeds here too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They sell mescaline-containing cacti at Home Depot. Yeah. So back to the point Tony was making is there there is a lot of psychedelic plants and cacti that is sold over the counter and simply, you know, people haven't caught up, both regulators and consumers, I guess you could say.

SPEAKER_08 3:13:09

Right.

SPEAKER_02 3:13:10

But that's nice to have it put into writing in the law that you could do this this way.

SPEAKER_01 3:13:16

So, yeah, these guys are creating strains and stuff, Tony. They're working on like making new strains, they've got all sorts of really wonderful mushroom technology and tools and units. I went and visited their place uh a couple times ago when I was in Colorado. And uh yeah, I'm sure in the least they'll be uh allies to uh whatever you're doing over in Louisiana.

SPEAKER_00 3:13:39

Well, that's one that's so fabulous, interesting. There's uh my college is just a fabulous, interesting world, and and I'm I'm always looking forward to connecting and learning things from from new people, you know.

SPEAKER_01 3:13:52

Well, it's so rewarding to see that kind of to see that much like just sheer mushroom. Like, imagine you're just like, oh, I bought this bag and uh I brought it home and now it looks like this.

SPEAKER_10 3:14:06

People be like, holy shit. But but people can learn from what Tony is doing, right? He's creating community there by going out and taking the tools there to the people, showing them how to use it. And once, I mean, you guys have already learned, but once you start to grow mushrooms, you realize, oh God, this is so easy, it's not even funny. And majority of people don't know how to grow something, and so they think, oh, I've got a green thumb, so I can't do something like that.

SPEAKER_01 3:14:34

But mushrooms are easy, even easier to grow. Well, the easiest if it's just a bag. And and Santi and Spoon sort of told the story earlier. Like, we sell the bags, and that way people can have mushrooms that fruit on their on their kitchen counter, or if they want to get like a liquid culture, if they want to get into pressure cooking and grain and agar and all the different ones, they're happy to sort of you know take them down that trip as well, um, which is awesome. I think that, you know, man, I wish when I got into growing mushrooms, there was a guy that I could have just bought bags off of instead of like building a transfer chamber and figuring out how to inoculate agar from with the spores and be way before PF Tech, like like a decade or more before anyone was injecting anything with a syringe. That's the ultimate fucking transfer chamber. It made so much sense. Um, but instead, we had the big gloves going into the box and fucking, you know, spraying Lysol and trying to keep this shit from fucking turning green and black and every other color mold that it can grow. It was quite an adventure. And the only shit we had was OES and Uric, Terence McKenna and Dennis's mushroom growers, you know, the grower's guide, how to grow these mushrooms in the first place. There wasn't a lot of like internet to go to. There wasn't like, I couldn't go to the library, I didn't know anyone that was growing them. So it was really like, you know, it was kind of like reading Terrence and then getting that book, which was for sale at, you know, the same publisher that he published all his books on. Um, I ended up getting that book and that was kind of it. At that point, we were like, okay, well, we can afford a pressure cooker. That's not super expensive. And we can make uh a transfer chamber, that's not overly expensive. Like compared to how expensive it was to get our grow going, because we got our our cannabis grow going probably like maybe eight months prior to doing the mushroom grow. So it's like back in the like early 90s, like if 90, like between 89 and 91, it would have been. And um, yeah, we got the grow going. We had a couple 400 Optimark light bulbs and you know, some timers and some other things. And it it cost money. That was a lot of money for us. And the mushrooms were just so much cheaper in that sense, like buying jars, buying a pressure cooker, uh, buying grain. Like these were all very even the mushroom spore that we ordered from the back of a psychedelic magazine that ended up being Cat McKenna in Hawaii, the syzygy, um, I don't think we probably spent much more than 20 or 30 bucks on that spore, which is incredible when you think about it. But from her perspective, she must have been like, oh my God, they're paying $30 for just the spore.

SPEAKER_10 3:17:18

You know? So, Tony, what does a little setup, if somebody comes to you and sees what you're doing, what does it cost to make a little uh mushroom setup like you have?

SPEAKER_00 3:17:29

Well, the the um I usually sell one quart hydrated sterilized grain bag with a um an injection port for for five bucks, you know, in my group, my club, you know. It just uh I probably could get more for it, but it my my goal is not I'm not running a business. I'm just a community organizer, veteran who's you know, taking I've had people give me a hundred bucks. Hey man, I like what you're doing here, you know, another veteran or or just somebody to. Came to the meeting and donated and I'd use that. It cost me uh for for a 50-pound bag of Milo, it's $13, and I can make uh $5, 40 of these bags easy. So for $13, it takes me a lot of time, you know, to hydrate the grain and pressure cook it. But you know, I'm sitting at home doing nothing. I'd rather somebody to come in there and learn, give them because I was charging $25 for a new member to come in. And I I thought, you know what, people don't have much money. If I can do this by donations and just give my time to the community, I'm gonna get more people learn how to grow mushrooms and be able to grow them at home, you know. So five bucks for the grain and ten bucks for a bag of uh a five-pound bag of um master's mix is what we normally do. Now for the workshop, I'm just gonna do a pasteurized wood pellets instead of adding the nutrients and have to pressure cook it. I'm gonna just do hot water and and um over, you know, overnight let it cool and then they'll dump their their bag into there. So, you know, it increases the contamination risk, of course, but it'll it'll be a lot less work for me. You know.

SPEAKER_04 3:19:09

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 3:19:11

Well, it's awesome work. I love that people are putting these out here. I'm kind of surprised I don't I think we do it here in Canada with just um regular. I'm sure there's actually psilocybin companies. I don't generally buy anything off the black market, but I know that there's companies that do it with like medicinal mushrooms that you can buy, like um these bags and just you know, do do them in on your uh on your you know kitchen counter or whatever. I live in the Pacific Northwest in a forest. So I just go outside and like just yank big racci mushrooms off the tree, just be like pop. It's like it's the most amazing place to live if you love mushrooms. In fact, if you love mushrooms, uh you should visit the Pacific Northwest because it really is kind of like a like a surreal mushroom utopian world of how many fungi are growing from conch to you know to every type that you could possibly imagine.

SPEAKER_10 3:20:11

Are you saying it's a fungal mecca?

SPEAKER_01 3:20:13

It is a bit of a mecca. It is a bit of a mecca. I was inviting Spoon and uh Santi earlier. You got to get out here and come pick some mushrooms. Uh, it's popping off all the time, whether you want, you know, tasty chanterelles or whether you want to trip balls on some azaresins and some cyanessins. Uh, they're kind of all available. Uh, spoon, you got to tell me what that last picture was that you sent. That's like mycelium in a in like a liquid culture.

SPEAKER_09 3:20:38

Yeah. So uh if you want to, we can just go through each of them uh individually. But this one in particular, this is just a liquid culture that we made. And then uh you can do liquid culture to liquid culture. This was a uh scrape of a plate of the mycelium into the liquid culture. So this one's sat, and you can see the mycelium is actually grabbed onto the glass and it's trying to like grow out of it. But all of those little strands, that's just the mycelium, and it's basically been scraped off the top of an agar plate and then put into the jar.

SPEAKER_01 3:21:12

Strands, and it's actually the right terminology. You've heard it here first on Hash Church. Spoon is the first person to ever use the term strands correctly here on Hash Church. So that's something. What about this little purple?

SPEAKER_09 3:21:27

So this is a good example of contamination. So there's lipstick mold, and on the right, uh, that looks like uh early stage uh some trichoderma. Trichoderma. It could also be uh penicillium. So uh penicillium will normally come in a little bit more turquoise, and the trichoderma will come in like a very green and powdery. So if you're ever, you know, growing anything out and you get anything powdery, anything red, green, yellow, it's not that nice white mycelium around it, and normally that's an indication of contamination. And what's cool about this picture too is that uh if you go back to that one before, yeah, you can see all of the little pins that are starting to form around the contamination. That is the mycelium trying to reproduce as quickly as possible before the contamination gets to it. So every single one of those little dots is an opportunity for a mushroom to grow out of. And then this is our so this is a tote, so this is toke F8 nerds and the toke fruiting body. So the nerds are those little pieces below the fruiting bodies that are like kind of dark or circular. They're just like little nerdy pieces. So the toque does these weird things where you get the actual fruiting bodies, which normally tests for us around like 2% potency, so double the potency of a regular mushroom. And then the nerd's morphology below that normally tests at two and a half to three times the potency of a regular mushroom. So you get these weird morphologies that crop up as you start messing around with the nutrition of the mushrooms, and nerds referencing the candy nerds for those who are watching.

SPEAKER_01 3:23:11

But uh, what is that powder above these mushrooms? Is that spores? It looks incredible. Uh, that might just be the our light box.

SPEAKER_09 3:23:19

It might have just been a little dusty or something.

SPEAKER_01 3:23:21

It looks so cool, man. I'm into it. All right.

SPEAKER_09 3:23:25

This is PE7. So this is penis in V, and it's the seventh uh generation of it. This is a pretty popular strain out there, but this is just one that we worked. Uh we normally work our strains about six generations before we release them, and that was a particularly good, uh good looking flush. This is Stargazer. So the the thought is that this is like a Paul Stametz original strain. Uh, I'm not sure if there's any truth to that or not. But these are very nice. You can see the these are like very traditional. So on the other ones where they were very thick or kind of weird, this one you see the stem, you see the veil, and you see the cap and the gills. So you get to see the entirety of the mushroom there. And the veil is just that piece that's a little bit below the cap that kind of breaks away classic stropheria look. Yeah, very, very traditional, like golden teacher variety type variety. How about Cascadian teacher? Yeah, these are really nice. These are a bit thicker, but they are just like very pancakey. So this is a really, really interesting strain.

SPEAKER_10 3:24:33

It's like one of the as in the caps are really pancakey.

SPEAKER_09 3:24:37

Yes, yeah. So the caps are very thick. And where the Stargazer, the caps will just kind of break apart very easily because they're a bit thinner. The Cascadian teacher, these things can get to a quarter of an inch or more thick. So they're just very, very hardy fruits. And you can see the stems on them also, and there's some spore drop on some of those as well on the veil.

SPEAKER_01 3:25:00

Dude, that bottom one on the left, that tiny little one, is like a perfect like smurf mushroom.

SPEAKER_10 3:25:07

It's a pretty girt girthy mushroom, too.

SPEAKER_03 3:25:10

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_10 3:25:12

It's got some girth. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_09 3:25:15

Inoculation. This is an albino Jedi Mindfuck plate. So of course it is. This one's really cool because it's just you can like the personality of each mushroom kind of comes out on the Agar plate and each of them grows a little bit differently. This one is a little bit later in the process. So like the earlier it is, the more individual strands of hyphae you can see. But this one you can see, like it's just growing out really, really interesting. And then this is a cross that we did of Ghost and Shockti. So we took the single spores from Ghost and Shockti, and then we put them together, and we got out this morphology, and it's just a cross your breed of both of those varieties together. There it is again. You do that with uh serial dilutions and microscopy work. And then I think that this one is Gandalf. Um, I think if you go to the next picture, I think I got a one there. But there's a Hydra brain that Santi showed earlier. If you can grab that Hydra again, Santi, this is a revert to the actual fruiting body that that came from. So it grows out like a brain, and that one is Hydra right there, and we got just a regular fruiting body from that. And then we uh trained it out, and I think that this is actually only the second generation, but it comes in like regular fruiting bodies. And then this one right here, this is the picture we showed earlier of the toque F8 nerds, where you have the fruiting bodies and the little nerds. This is a mutation of that that forms these balls, and it doesn't bruise up super crazy, like when you cut it open, there's barely any bruising at all, but it's very fluffy, and you get like the mycelium, but it's just super meaty, very, very dense. And this is one of the ones that we've been uh trying to stabilize over the past two years.

SPEAKER_10 3:27:22

And I'm thinking what is that fuzzy tongue? What is it?

SPEAKER_09 3:27:25

Yeah, we we call it fuzzy toque.

SPEAKER_01 3:27:27

Um isn't that pronounced fuzzy toque? It could be looks looks very fancy.

SPEAKER_09 3:27:37

But yeah, these are just some of the cool strains that we've kind of been messing around with. It's it's crazy all of the different weird brain and like softball like morphologies you can get out of these things just by taking them back to spore, messing around with different nutrition, and putting them in stressful conditions that cause them to react differently. It's awesome.

SPEAKER_10 3:28:01

What's a stressful reaction for a mushroom spore?

SPEAKER_09 3:28:05

So a high CO2 environment, high heat or cold, just any of the conditions that would stress us out. Um you can have very high nutrition in your substrate as well, and that'll cause your mushrooms to come in. Maybe they're like thicker, or as you take them forward generations, you'll start to see the morphology change if you just give them a ton of food. But yeah, we normally do uh CO2 and we've been messing around with heat more recently. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:28:42

Well, you guys definitely have a cool little facility there. I quite enjoyed touring around and looking at all the different uh well, just that you guys are making everything available, you know, like from the whole. I think uh making those bags available as well, Tony. What you're doing, very smart. What a great way to like, first of all, people and I suspect veterans more than most regular people, they just need good things to focus on. We need good things to focus on that are positive, that feed our soul instead of uh kill our soul, right? This is it. We're in a battle of life and death. That's what it is. You got demonic intelligence, angelic intelligence. Which one are you feeding? Fuck, it seems a lot easier to feed the demonic one, if you ask me. Um, I can't even imagine uh what it's like after you go to war. I've never been to war, but I still know that I'm constantly in a battle to make sure that I feed my angelic intelligence that's around me more often than I feed the one that's uh, you know, gonna convince me that fucking jumping off a bridge is a good idea. Because it's not ever a good idea.

SPEAKER_10 3:29:49

No, it's I mean, it it's it's it's especially important for veterans, as I said earlier, because you know, cannabis is a palliative, but when we want to go and work on that those traumas, you know, those psychedelics really, really help. And uh what you're doing, Tony, is um, you know, in my opinion, rather epic. But you you know, you take the time, you go to your local library so people can find you, you advertise what you're gonna do, and the people have responded. I mean, you have literally grown a community in a short amount of time, kind of quickly like mushrooms. So, how would people find you if they wanted to get in touch with you there?

SPEAKER_00 3:30:31

Well, we uh we operate mainly out of Facebook, and I do have a website that um I built myself and I don't maintain it well. But um, you know, if you go to Facebook uh Kadiana Michael on Facebook, I was trying to open my Facebook so you so I could show you the the screen here. But this this is the the title, Kadiana Michael Mushroom Growers and Foragers. And you know, just uh you'll see all our progress in the group photos. And uh I mean it's it's great community building. Parents bring their children, eight, ten-year-old children in, and they do their first inoculation and they go home and they buy the Martha tent and start growing at home, you know. And the and the veterans that like Bo Man said, it's a good community bringing people together for a purely um, you know, not like going out dancing to the nothing against that, but I'm just saying, you know, this is a non-alcoholic event at a public library that you can bring your family to and and uh make connections that you know you wish don't find elsewhere because everybody's usually stuck in their device or or busy doing other things and not communicating with people. So I I love that's the most favorite part of the meetings is just pausing a second while I'm teaching somebody something and looking up and seeing four or five groups of of folks conversating, and many of them it's the first time they meet, you know. So they they uh you know, really learning from each other, and and that's important in life.

SPEAKER_04 3:32:05

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 3:32:07

Well, I love that. I would circle that back to what uh what we were talking about earlier, right? Of like the the how do you best find someone to introduce you to this natural medicine. And I think what Tony is doing is exactly it. He's creating that community that can then go and spread like mycelium, right? Because each one of those people can now go and impact a whole group of new people. And the way they started most likely shows that they were starting with with the right intention, right? It's not like they were coming into a seminar that teaches you how to build a business that's gonna make a hundred thousand like you're coming in because you're looking for healing and connecting with community, and now you can go and and do that yourself. So, yeah, props to Tony. Thank you for doing what you're doing.

SPEAKER_00 3:32:52

Dabs for Tony. Dabs for Tony. Thank you. I'm I'm honored. I'm honored to to hear.

SPEAKER_02 3:33:01

Whatever we can do to help Tony, please. Yeah, I mean, reach out. Sadly, we we have a website, but we don't have a Facebook, so we're trying to get better with our social media and uh meta, etc. world. But hopefully we can exchange information. I don't think it's been mentioned, but I'll mention it real quick in passing. Spoon is also a veteran. Um, so you know, from connecting with the veteran community, helping the veteran community, the minor minority community, or really anybody, but would would love to connect and help in any way we can.

SPEAKER_10 3:33:31

All right, come uh you're welcome to join our group as well, Veterans Action Council. That's what we do. We we're all veterans for veterans. There's no dues, no hierarchy. Uh, all we do are working group, and that's how we found Tony, working with Tony. Uh Tony's been part of our group for almost since its inception. We've been going six years. And uh yeah, uh, not only is it that, you know, it's also first responders, and you know, especially which my father was right, and you know, and it's very important. On top of that, behind that is uh, you know, right behind that, who has the largest suicide rate behind behind veterans and first responders?

SPEAKER_03 3:34:11

Researchers, research.

SPEAKER_10 3:34:15

Yeah, I don't know that.

SPEAKER_01 3:34:17

Yeah, it's uh I just know that three out of four of them are men.

SPEAKER_10 3:34:22

Yeah, and so this is the type of thing by doing what Tony is doing by reaching out in your community, you have no idea how how much you may be saving somebody's life by just taking that chance, by giving somebody the opportunity. What you were talking about earlier was grow therapy, and that's what has become an emerging thing, and that's something we found in the medical cannabis community is giving somebody a clone while they're going through something very hard, and creating something uh and trying to sustain it while they're going through is an amazing healing thing to go through while you're existing in a trauma. And uh, it's something that um a lot of veterans have found a lot of healing, myself uh and of course Tony through his mycology work, you know, it leads you to helping others. And when you're helping others, you're stepping outside yourself. And, you know, PTSD is not exclusive to us veterans or first responders. We all have it. And so uh by stepping outside, like Tony is doing and helping others uh out of love and respect for your community really comes back to you in ways and in areas that are pretty priceless, huh, Tony? I mean, the the interactions, the the meeting, the families, the because then families come and see what the family is growing at home, which leads to more questions, which leads to you becoming even more of a teacher, right?

SPEAKER_00 3:35:54

Yeah, absolutely. And the like you were saying, that sometimes we do things and we don't realize that it ripples through. And I'm that's been always in the back of my mind. I'm gonna teach some some guy to grow a mushroom, and he has some uncle that's struggling with uh, you know, some some issues and drinking too much or something, and he's gonna grow some mushrooms, maybe perhaps some decorative mushrooms, and then give them to the to the uncle, you know. And and so, and then recently uh we had a couple members coming in from Baton Rouge. I get contacted from New Orleans Street Ford Baton Rouge. Come teach over here, you know. But hey, I'm doing this on my disabil veterans uh income, you know, it's not a it's not a business. I like uh I'm not charging enough to make up for the time, really.

SPEAKER_01 3:36:40

But is it legally allowed to be a business? Could you make it a business? Is it would it would you be within your legal rights if it were a business?

SPEAKER_00 3:36:48

Well, for gourmet mushrooms, yes. But uh decorative mushrooms or psychedelic philosophy mushrooms, no. We those we're we can't retail them or anything like that. We did have a uh a psychedelic research bill that came that that passed this this session that ended in June, but it's more of a uh synthetic, psychedelic development re you know, bill. It's gonna do some, you know, set up clinical research for uh synthetic drugs. And I'm I'm a I'm a natural plant medicine advocate. I like you know getting your hands dirty, growing what you what your medicine is and getting in touch with the medicine. Synthetics is great for scaling it up for uh you know for for the nation, maybe, but uh plant medicine and and um growing your own medicine as therapeutic. And and um, but yeah, we had a couple members coming in from Baton Rouge, back to my story. And a librarian contacted me from Baton Rouge, said, Hey, do you know somebody that can do that over here? And I said, Absolutely. Have a couple ladies, the mother and daughter team that's been coming to meetings and they mentioned that they want to do it. And since then they've they've started uh Baton Rouge Growing Michael, I think is the name of the group. But so it rippled on, you know, and uh hopefully some other cities will do the same thing. Somebody will step up and say, Yeah, we want to do that over here.

SPEAKER_01 3:38:07

So you're a good dude, man. And I don't know if it's just your awesome uh southern accent, but I think also you just you come across as an authentic human being, uh as do Spoon and Santi and Etkin and Colin. That's what we're all about here, man. Trust me, we're all in the same boat. We're all for plant medicine and turning people on to plant medicine.

SPEAKER_10 3:38:30

So Tony has been a leader. I mean, um I uh I actually went to um years ago, went to and spoke there in um Louisiana and actually stood out there and rallied with him uh there. Uh here, I got some pictures. I'm gonna share uh my screen here.

SPEAKER_01 3:38:54

Just hold them up on your phone. Huh? I do it all the time, Spoon. I'm totally guilty for doing it. Sometimes I'm just like, I just can't make this work. Put the pictures on my phone. You can just look on my phone. Oh, here we go. Baton Rouge.

SPEAKER_10 3:39:11

Yeah, this is in Baton Rouge, and this is a few years ago, Tony. We were out in front. This is our boy. Yeah, there I am speaking there. Uh, and um we were out there flying the flags. Uh we're uh this is a uh what was this for? This is for the first legislative day there, right? In Louisiana.

SPEAKER_00 3:39:33

It was opening day of the 2024, I think, legislative session, A10. Uh I I held a rally, those are my all the flag posts. I bought all those just for holding rallies at the Capitol. But uh we did that for the last decade, just about every opening day of the session. We we've held a a rally at the Capitol. I didn't do it this year, but um, you know, I just Kind of got got into the mushroom uh world and uh there wasn't a whole lot there was more to fight against at the Capitol. I should have been there fighting this law about the school zones and but um but I didn't make it. But uh thank you, A10 and Donna too for for coming and taking part in that rally. It it all makes a difference, you know. Even even though we don't see it, those those actions ripple on through the history.

SPEAKER_10 3:40:26

And you doing that and organizing that, and it's uh it's I'm I'm saddened that more people didn't stand up alongside you because Tony is a disabled veteran. He drives himself up to the Capitol and he does all this and he volunteers. So yeah, when you say both man, he's a good man, he's a great man, as far as I'm concerned. He's one of the great ones where I will literally fly on my own dime to Louisiana and stand on my own feet, speak on his behalf for other veterans. Because I used to, I'm born there, I'm a native son of Louisiana, but I can't do what he does there. So I hold Tony in a special high regard to push for cannabis and as well as what he has done with my mushrooms there in Louisiana. He is on his own awesome pedestal that he put himself on because he's just that much of a badass.

SPEAKER_01 3:41:12

Hell yeah. Well, we're happy to have you here on our little Miko episode today.

SPEAKER_00 3:41:18

Yeah, it's an honor to be here. I'm can't wait to connect with Santee and uh the others on here. I'm not I don't see everyone's name, but I'm looking forward to connecting up.

SPEAKER_01 3:41:27

Spoon's got his name set as owner. Owner, okay. Colin Palmer, we like to call him Paul and Palmer. We flip the C with the P. Only when we're talking about I'll be amazed, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_00 3:41:44

We live a sheltered world in Louisiana down here in the deep south. So I'm I I don't get to know the national spotlight as much as I'm looking forward to learning about it.

SPEAKER_01 3:41:54

Well, I'll tell you, I have just started coming to the U.S. only in the last like five months or something after not going there for almost 30 years. I had to get permission from your homeland security to allow me to come down there because I had some cannabis issues with our compassion club here in Canada pri previously, but they were very generous and kind and gave me permission to come to the US. So I've been quite enjoying it. In fact, it's how I met both Spoon and Santi, who are on the call right now. I was hanging out with Boston, uh with Colin in Boston, which seemed like a couple of months ago. So I'm now able to come down there. And the the uh what you just said about being like sheltered down in uh the south there, I would like to experience that as well.

SPEAKER_00 3:42:41

Oh, cool. You're welcome to come down anytime.

SPEAKER_01 3:42:44

Yeah, I want to come check that out. I want to be in the middle of nowhere and really be like, wow, you really like this. Is we are far away from shit right now.

SPEAKER_10 3:42:52

That's the feeling I'm looking for. You can be closer to alligators than to humans, real quick. Now I will say that now.

SPEAKER_01 3:42:59

No problem. I'm hyper aware and I really I'm not trying to be cocky, but I have there's no way an alligator is getting the jump on me. A fucking leopard, yes, absolutely, but not an alligator. I would just be like, no, I'm paying attention. How much do you have to not be paying attention to have a fucking alligator sneak up on you? Please, Tony, tell me.

SPEAKER_00 3:43:21

It can happen quick, it can happen.

SPEAKER_01 3:43:24

They're just under the the brush or whatever. Yes. So have you been attacked by an alligator? Are they fast runners? I'm a pretty fast runner, dude.

SPEAKER_00 3:43:34

35 miles an hour. I think they can run. Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 3:43:37

Well, then I'm going 40. Let me tell you.

SPEAKER_02 3:43:41

Oh, you're going faster than the slower guy.

SPEAKER_01 3:43:43

30. Well, that's it. That is 100% guaranteed happening. But 35 miles an hour, like, no way could I run that fast.

SPEAKER_10 3:43:50

Oh, yeah, they can shoot out of the water. I mean, uh I used to live uh right on the bayou. So when I would I had a water dog, so I always had to hold my dog back and throw rocks into the water to make sure there are no gators, otherwise, you know, they'll snatch your dog. Yeah, there's no fucking.

SPEAKER_01 3:44:06

I'm not hanging out on the I'm not going swimming there.

SPEAKER_10 3:44:09

Yeah, no, no, I don't hide it.

SPEAKER_00 3:44:11

And people do, they swim in the rivers and you go at go out at night. You don't see any alligators in the day, but you go out at night with a spotlight to frog or go froging or something, and and you'll see red eyes all over in the bottom.

SPEAKER_01 3:44:22

What about can we go on the boat with the big fan behind us? Can we do that?

SPEAKER_00 3:44:26

Yes, okay. Okay, okay, now we're talking, Tony. I mean, that's the safest place to be when the alligators we I went on one in New Orleans, they actually catch a little alligator and let you hold one.

SPEAKER_01 3:44:38

But geez, well, it's mom's looking at you from the embankment just like I'll get you, motherfucker.

SPEAKER_00 3:44:44

Oh, yeah, they're fast, and they can come out the water like four or five feet out the water with just their tail. The tail's so massive and big, it can do like that and come out the water. So they feed them out uh chicken and they come out the water for it.

SPEAKER_01 3:44:58

Jesus, these fucking things have been around for what 400 million years. Is that what we're kind of like the lobsters type shit? Living diet, living dinosaur type of shit. Yeah, like what's older? I think lobsters are some of the oldest things on earth, they're like in the 350 to 400 million range. These things can't be far behind.

SPEAKER_00 3:45:17

Yeah, and then we have dinosaurs. The garfish are prehistoric too. They get like nine foot long and with uh teeth like an alligator, sharp teeth. Oh, wow. Those are pretty, pretty.

SPEAKER_01 3:45:29

We have what do we have? We have oh sturgeon. People come here to fish sturgeon, and people say they're dinosaurs.

SPEAKER_00 3:45:37

Yeah, they're like yeah, I lived in Washington, I lived in in uh Bremerton for three years. So I remember seeing those sturgeon. I was pretty impressed. They remind me of the gore fish.

SPEAKER_01 3:45:48

Yeah, you can't even pull them out of the water, that's how big they are. Guys have to get in the water and all put their arms around it, and there'll be like seven dudes in a row holding this fucking dinosaur fish that's probably just been like these motherfuckers have caught me 21 times in the last 400 years, and I'm getting pretty sick and tired. I'm not a fisherman, but obviously you don't keep uh sturgeon. Do you guys have giant catfish up there? I know we get giant catfish down in Louisiana and other areas. I don't know enough about it. I do know that we have humpback whales and orcas jumping in the water out in front of my house, and those are fucking gigantic and huge. And like, even if you're on a kayak and they accidentally don't know you're there, because I don't think humpback whales have very good eyesight, personally. I think their eyes are on the side of their fucking heads, and they just they can they can they can bang into boats. Like you really have to be cognitive around these animals because um it's a huge fine. If they hit your boat, it's a huge fine. That's why you're kind of supposed to go in the opposite direction when you see them. That you're definitely not supposed to go towards them uh when you see them on a boat. So we don't do that. No, and orcas are pretty friendly, right? I mean, they eat seals. If you're a seal, they're seals would be like, no, they're not friendly at all. They're horrific creatures. But for us, I don't see orcas making the mistake. I'll tell you one thing. When they look in your eye and you look in theirs, I swear to god they know you're human. Like they are definitely you never hear about them attacking human beings. Now I've heard about them attacking boats and sinking vessels over there by Gibraltar, right?

SPEAKER_10 3:47:33

They're they're they're sinking, but I've never heard of them eating humans, you know.

SPEAKER_01 3:47:37

Even in those boat sinkings, they they weren't eating the people. So who knows what's going on with Orcas? They're fascinating, they're monsters, they're huge, they're all over the place here lately. There's all sorts of different pods. There's one called Chainsaw because the giant fin, it's this huge fin, it's probably like seven feet. It's all like cut at the back, like a ferry ran over this fucking thing's back. A big giant ferry with like a 20-foot fucking uh boat motor. Um, and so yeah, they call it chainsaw, but it's it's very when it's sticking out of the water, that's the one that you're like, yeah, that is definitely chainsaw. All the other ones are like TJ159 from the pod SJ5. I don't really understand how they name the whales, but uh, I'm super excited when I see them um, you know, jump jumping out in uh in front of the house here or anywhere uh along the house sound where I take my boat. It's always impressive. And it just makes you feel very much here we go, full circle, back to the mushroom. Humble. They are very humbling creatures to be in the presence of a whale. The closer you are in the presence of the whale, the more humble you will be. Because even if the whale is the friendliest animal in the world, once you're within like 20 feet of it, you realize, oh, like I could die just by accidentally, like if it just jumped out of the water and then landed on me, I would just be perished instantly. And sometimes they do it accidentally to kayakers and shit. I haven't seen the kayakers dying, I've seen them pop back up and be completely fucking shocked. But like I said, they come out of the water when they're krilling, when they've got their mouths open and they make all the bubbles under the water, like a hundred feet down, and then the bubbles go up and it scares all the herring, and they do it in a in a circle. So the herring get trapped in the middle, and then they all come up in the middle, and this thing comes up behind it with its mouth like wide open, fucking eats like you know, a hundred thousand krill or whatever it is. It's it's I think it's krilling that they're doing, but we also have um um another tiny little fish. I'm forgetting the name right now that feeds oh herring, the herring. We have these tiny little herring that feed our house sound. Without the herring, our house sound has no whales, has no sea line, uh sea lions, has no larger life. So, yeah, for whatever reason, being around these creatures um is humbling, like taking uh psychedelic mushrooms. Uh, I wonder why that is. Do you have to be scared for your life to touch the incorporeal, you know, whatever that means? Do you have like to you have to admit having these experiences? I don't know, Tony, if the people you're you're dealing with are mostly dabbling uh in the in the microdose or if some of them are going into the full healing, like the story Spoon told earlier uh about using mushrooms to sort of battle different things that was was were go was going on in his thoughts, you know, because they're both equally valuable, but I do lean on one particularly that the large the large dose uh uh psychedelic mushroom trip to me is essential. I think it's super important for people to experience at least once in their life, and probably like much more often. Probably it's like the dentist should probably be doing it every like year, every eight months, whatever that is. You gotta do it. Every six months, yeah.

SPEAKER_10 3:51:13

It's uncomfortable, it's it's not ideal, but uh well they've shown studies for for depression. If you do it every six months, you know, they found microdosing or macrodosing, it tends to stave off depression. And depression is a major thing for people with PTSD, as well as living on a blue dot floating out in the middle of space and being in a fucking meat fucking coffin and trying to exist. Yeah. Right? Yeah, that little existential thing.

SPEAKER_01 3:51:46

Well, I choose not to believe any of that myself. I'm just joking. Just enrage someone in the chat room. I'm just I'm just uh what they call it.

SPEAKER_03 3:51:57

Rage baiting. Rage baiting, yeah. Sorry, I'm sorry, everyone.

SPEAKER_01 3:52:00

I was rage baiting. I didn't mean to do it. I'm really glad we had this conversation. We got eight more minutes. If there's anything else anyone wants to say, uh, I'm gonna shout out Puffco as well as the press club for sponsoring. Thank you guys for the support. You can go support them at Puffco.com and the Press Club.co. Uh, I use their bags uh in my rosin production down in Colorado, for instance, where my brand is active. Didn't even talk about that once all day, but there it is. Shameless plug. Go check out Bubble Man brand in Colorado. Go check out Full Canopy. Uh, where are people able to support you guys, Full Canopy? Is that through a website as well? Mainly website, fullcanopygenetics.com. Fullcanopygenetics.com.

SPEAKER_02 3:52:47

I'll try to get all that into the description as well as we have also sorry to interrupt Bubble Man, fullcanopy.co will give you different links, like uh to our gallery that Spoon was mentioning earlier, fullcanopy.co, and then mycobag.com. If you are out in Europe, uh mycobag is a product of the brand that would be out in Europe.

SPEAKER_01 3:53:09

Hell yeah, awesome. And then uh yeah, let me make sure I maybe I'll even, if you can, send me that in a text spoon, the same one you just sent me all those pictures in. And then Etienne, I'll get you to do the same thing with Tony's information, even though I'll let Tony say it right now. Again, uh his Facebook page, uh, Acadian uh Mico Mushroom Growers and Foragers public group, Acadian Acadiana mush mico. Um, we'll check that out. I'll try to get it into the description group. And if you if Spoon can send me the text and Etienne can send me the text, I will 100% do it. Uh yeah, that was a fun episode talking about mushrooms. What what what important uh compounds for the world to be allowed to have access to. I would not be the person I am today without uh the psychedelic mushroom experiences that I had. Thank God I was turned on to Terrence at such a young age. Thank God I was obsessed with reading all of his words and listening to all of his tapes and really getting into uh psychedelic mushrooms. Thank God I got into Paul Stanitz at such a young age and got to meet Paul like so long ago, like in the early 2000s in uh Whistler, BC at a psychedelic conference. I asked Paul Stamitz to identify a microscopic photo of a of a resin gland on a cannabis plant. And he was stumped. And after a while, I said, dude, I'm just joking, it's a resin gland. And he's like, What? I'm like, Yeah, it's a microscopic photo of a of a trichome. And he was just like, and then we ended up talking about Robert Connell Clark because uh he was a mutual friend of both of ours. Um, but I was actually standing with Finn McKenna, Terrence McKenna's son, at that time of that whole experience. Finn was with me at my booth. I had just really met him through another friend when Paul came up and we we um we stumped him with the photo there. So all good fun in the mushroom world. I hope the mushroom world grows and I hope it grows in a way where there's more gatherings, more um connection to the medicinal, the um edible, and the psychedelic. To me, they're all in the same kingdom, they don't have different kingdoms, they should all be welcomed. I feel mushroom people are trippy enough, even the ones that just consume lion's mane and cordyceps and you know, go cons go go foraging and picking mushrooms. They're still trippy enough people to be accepting of the psychedelic mushroom. Uh, what an important thing it it has been in my life, and I'm sure in millions and millions of other people's lives. Uh, I can't say enough good about it. I appreciate it. I appreciate having all of you guys on here. We'll make sure we connect all of your stuff in the descriptions. Uh, thank you, Colin, for coming on today and hanging out and puffing bowls with us. Uh, as well, you, Etienne, with your Smurf hat and your fat joint. It was a joy to see. Well, I had been talking for a while, I think almost an hour plus. Just Spoon and Santi and myself. Do one more dab on our way out. Well, do a dab, dude. Do a dab. I'll pack one up real quick here. And you know, we do have four more minutes before we have to shut her down. I think I'm gonna go with this candy fumes. It's good.

SPEAKER_07 3:56:30

I'll make a cush family far.

SPEAKER_01 3:56:34

Hell yeah.

SPEAKER_07 3:56:36

You know, it's funny. Some of the OGs and the GGs, you know, this darker resin. Remember, Marcus, you're sitting with me, and you're like, yo, is that older? The GG4? Yeah in Boston? Yeah. Fresh, just the way the resin comes out.

SPEAKER_04 3:56:50

This one's like yellow. Super fire. Super light color, this one.

SPEAKER_08 3:56:56

I think this is an OG from different resin, different looks. Different resin, different looks.

SPEAKER_07 3:57:03

But I will say, go ahead. The GG4 is just amazing, but it's darker resin.

SPEAKER_01 3:57:09

You know, I will say going to Colorado and making hash, it's very different. Making hash in such a low humidity environment. It is completely different for making hash uh in the Pacific Northwest, where it's just it really like I did notice it. Is that noticeable the way you guys grow fungus over there as well? Is it substantially different? You really have to, Jesus Christ, you must have a mix blasting fucking humidity non-stop.

SPEAKER_02 3:57:37

No, thankfully, because of the uh grow bags, the it's the environment is mainly inside of the grow bag. Otherwise, yeah, and just sweating those and all that, then yeah, it's yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:57:46

The grow bags just sweat the moisture that the mushrooms require to fulfill its mycelium production and then fruit.

SPEAKER_09 3:57:54

Yeah, when we were growing in Amartha, it was on like 24-7 because the water evaporates so quickly.

SPEAKER_01 3:58:02

Wow. I can imagine. Well, right on. Thanks everyone for watching out there, all the bingo lombardies and the Malchronics and Japan Paradise 2023. I had a couple hundred people watching all day today, and I think a couple thousand that may have watched in the meantime. Yeah, 1777, actually. One shy of the birth 250 years ago of America. And I'm not afraid to say it, dude. I love America. I love Americans. I love coming and seeing you guys and hanging out and seeing things that have only really been exported to me culturally through movies and TV shows and and and music. To now be able to like drive into Chicago and see the old like a train up on this, like the sound of it and the look of it. I'm like, oh my god, there's the my buddy's like, yeah, dude, like, what do you mean? I'm like, Well, you don't understand. I've been kept here for 30 years. So I'm super stoked on all that shit coming and seeing mushrooms in Colorado, going on the fucking boat with Tony in Louisiana, going to the Bay Area with that, going and bumping into Colin in Massachusetts and New York. Like, are you kidding me? I am so here for all of that. I can't even say happy. I will I can say this happy birthday, America. 250 years. That's pretty substantial. Uh, I hope uh I also wished I could have been there because my friends in Colorado were sending me pictures of all the fireworks that were going off at the baseball stadium, which is where our top the top deck from for the reserve, the outside deck, faces that baseball stadium. So they sent me earlier all these fireworks that were going off yesterday, which is pretty awesome. Um, thanks everyone for watching another episode of Hash Church. I am trying to have a gentleman by the name of Lee Jaffey on next week. Lee was a gentleman that knew the whalers in the early days, and he may or may not have lived at 56 Hope Road. I definitely know he helped direct or produce Peter Tosh's legalized album. He was a big part of that. He took the photo of Peter Tosh on the cover with the pipe in the field. So Lee is like as legit as it gets in regards to his storytelling and his history with Bob Marley and the Whalers. Um, shockingly, like from start to finish, he had a very, very, very deep uh connection to the Whalers and uh maybe even more so Peter Tosh for years afterwards. Uh, but I'm hoping on having him come on next week, share a bunch of photography as he is an incredible photographer. He's got really like pictures that most people have never seen of Bob and Bunny and Peter and that whole scenario. Uh, and so hopefully next week, you'll know sooner than later. I'll get him to commit here in the next day or two, and I'll put up the thumbnail uh that will be you know, stories and photography by Lee Jaffe. So hopefully that'll be next week. And uh, I just want to thank all of you guys for coming on this week. What a great discussion we had. Uh, I'm gonna go eat five grams right now and go electric skateboarding. Joking, but it did put a lot of smiles on a lot of your faces. I saw teeth on four out of five of you, so that was worth it. I'm gonna get your teeth next time, Colin. I I had you.

SPEAKER_07 4:01:18

You were quite there with there for a second, man. It was there.

SPEAKER_01 4:01:22

So thank you, everyone. May the full melt bless your bowl sooner than later. Um see you next week. See you next week.

SPEAKER_06 4:01:32

Thank you.